Erattic and retarding timing when held at rpm

Electrical & Ignition

  1. CrazyRalph

    CrazyRalph Member

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    Hi , I've got a problem with my timing beeing erattic when held at higher rpm then idle.
    The engine is a 440 and it's got stock electronic pick-up.
    I got about 10 degrees of advance and before the issues started it's all in somewhere between 1500-2000.

    Now, the only time that my timing seems to be stable is at idle.
    When held at higher rpm it bounces around a few degrees and at the same time it seems to retard timing.
    The higher the rpm the more it retards. At about 3000 it retards about 5 degrees and at the same time it bounces around lets say 3 degrees.

    What I've tried is
    Change Ignition coil
    Pick-up coil
    Number 1 spark plug wire
    The main spark plugg wire from coil to distribuor
    Number one spark plug
    Distributor cap
    Rotor
    Ecu box
    Tried two different timing lights

    None of these things made any difference.

    You can wiggle the reluctor slighty with the dist in the engine. Now I understand there is a little wiggle from where the shaft from the dist meets the drive slot in the engine but how much is to much?. Also there is some up and down play when grabbing reluctor and pulling. Got a video of it but but cant seem to upload it to this forum.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. CrazyRalph

    CrazyRalph Member

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    To clear things up. It does advance to about 36 at about 1500-2000. Then it starts to retard. All this while its slightly bouncing.
     
  3. Nevada dan

    Nevada dan Well-Known Member

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    are you running a vacuum advance
    Make you a line with a T so you can put a gauge on
    I had a dirty carb that screwed up my vacuum
     
  4. steve340

    steve340 Well-Known Member

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    Not saying this is the problem - but had wandering timing on another brand engine and it was a very sloppy timing chain and the camshaft "walking" in and out of the block.
    The engine was old but it actually ran OK but performance was also pretty sluggish.
    Same I guess as yours - the problem only became obvious with the strobe timing light on it.
     
  5. CrazyRalph

    CrazyRalph Member

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    No, I've got vacuum advance disconnected. The plate where the pick-up is mounted (the one wich the vacuum advance arm pulls on is not welded in place though.
     
  6. CrazyRalph

    CrazyRalph Member

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    It acutally got rebuilt about two years ago. Had the dist out a few times and changed the advance springs since then. Advcanced nice and stable after last time the springs were changed. Then I just felt like checking timing a few months later and then this problem ocucurred.
     
  7. Nevada dan

    Nevada dan Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s in your distributor, sounds like your plate is moving around
     
  8. Nevada dan

    Nevada dan Well-Known Member

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    You might try a distributor that’s not made for vacuum advance if your not going to use it
     
  9. turbine68rt

    turbine68rt FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    I'm an old school points type of guy but don't most, if not all ecu boxes tend to retard timing at higher rpm?
     
  10. CrazyRalph

    CrazyRalph Member

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    Yea I guess that is a possibility. The plate feels to be quite firmly in place and it has worked without pulling timing before . But I’ll look into it
     
  11. CrazyRalph

    CrazyRalph Member

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    I think thats true. I’ve heard 0.5 degree per 1000 rpm is to be expected.
    But mine is jumping around and it’s retarding way more
     
  12. HALIFAXHOPS

    HALIFAXHOPS MSGT(ret) and MOPAR only distributor rebuilder! FBBO Gold Member

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    Make sure the advance spring are not broken and also make sure the cam plate is lubed. Just FYI
     
  13. Ronnman

    Ronnman Active Member

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    On what engine is this distributor problem occurring? Did this problem just start or has it occurred since a component was changed? Is this the original/correct distributor for the engine? Are the advance springs in place? Post a pic or two of the distributor and we may have additional advice.
    Ron
     
  14. CrazyRalph

    CrazyRalph Member

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    As far as I remember nothing was changed. I just noticed it randomly checking timing .

    I have a couple of videos of it but can’t seem to post them here.
    And there is no good view into the dist. Just me wiggling the shaft back and forth and pulling up and down.
    I can get some pics next weekend
     
  15. CrazyRalph

    CrazyRalph Member

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    Lets say the springs are broken. Would that cause timing to jump around and retard?
    Wouldn’t that cause it to immediately go full advance and stay there?
     
  16. 451Mopar

    451Mopar Well-Known Member

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    Double check the timing light on another vehicle just to make sure the tool is working correctly.
     
  17. HALIFAXHOPS

    HALIFAXHOPS MSGT(ret) and MOPAR only distributor rebuilder! FBBO Gold Member

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    They definitely can cause jumping around if the heavy one is Broken, kind of like fluttering if that makes sense. Did you check you timing chain like was mentioned earlier?
     
  18. HALIFAXHOPS

    HALIFAXHOPS MSGT(ret) and MOPAR only distributor rebuilder! FBBO Gold Member

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    Thats a good question are you using a dial back timing light? I have never had good results with them
     
  19. Ernie ingling

    Ernie ingling Well-Known Member

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    Check timing chain for wear how many miles on chain/gears
     
  20. bolson6333

    bolson6333 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    I would try another oil pump drive shaft
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2021
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