Exotic suspension or stock?

[super-bee_ski]

Then leave it alone . . .

If you drive like me, move the motor back 3" or more depending on the work you want use elephant ears, move it down, make a new oil pan, lower the car until the x member is 3" off the floor, heavier spring rate t bars, rear springs, sliders to replace the crap shackles, nylon bushings, race sway bars with adjustable ends, add a little camber some more caster, tuck the oval custom 2 into 1 exhaust....
Then do the brakes.....

Hunt some exotics, let them lead till you're board of being held up and pass on the outside....

.

I have two 2007 shelby GT500s. One is a driver (34K miles) the other is a garage queen with 196 miles. If I want the feel of "suspension technology" I'll drive one of them. Funny, my FAV of all my vehicles is a 1988 Toyota pickup, Xtended cab 4X4 22RE motor. "Ol Lucky" I call her. No handeling capabilities at all!
LOL

 

[Flys-Lo]

Seems most if not all discussion here centers around front suspension. Anyone have any advice on the rear 4 links? Not much comes up on a forum search and especially nothing in the last couple of years.


Freakride?
RMS?
Martz?
Unlawful?
XV?

 

[Big Sugar]

True... no one really brings up the 4 link or rear suspension, Id suggest it's a race only application, Same with the XV and Alter K ation, It's a BIG $$ ticket that most people jump into without realizing all they needed was to dial the excisting suspension in, upgrade those old Rubber bushings, Chuck those old school shocks, and add a set of Sway bars Front and REAR !!

If your looking for more...Now is the time to consider tightening up that old unibody with Subframe connectors, torque Boxes, Chassis Gussets, Forward Frame plates, Lower Rad supports and Inner fender supports.

Now if your still not happy....., Only Now ! you should consider the Hotchkis setup, Firm Feel Or "PST's suspension upgrades.

Keep in mind your Brakes and Rims and Tires now need upgrading.
thinking you may like to enter some competetive driving events.
Well that is where XV , AlterKtion and Magnumforce sould start coming into play.
Front and rear end setups fully adjustable suspensions offer countless setup options and in most cases it's a lot more work and $$ than you initially imagined.

Start with a Plan,
Check the foundation.
Keep realistic goals.
In most cases all you really needed was a set of good shocks and a new set of swaybars.


Ron

By the way if you have a buddy that says " AHhh you don't really need Rear sway bar".....Good Chance they don'y have one themselves.
You ABSOLUTLY need a rear bar, specially if you want to turn left and right.

 

[Supershafts]

Seems most if not all discussion here centers around front suspension. Anyone have any advice on the rear 4 links? Not much comes up on a forum search and especially nothing in the last couple of years.


Freakride?
RMS?
Martz?
Unlawful?
XV?

We have done rear suspension handling alot, you just didn't look, even this thread is rear suspension

I have two 2007 shelby GT500s. One is a driver (34K miles) the other is a garage queen with 196 miles. If I want the feel of "suspension technology" I'll drive one of them. Funny, my FAV of all my vehicles is a 1988 Toyota pickup, Xtended cab 4X4 22RE motor. "Ol Lucky" I call her. No handeling capabilities at all!
LOL

lol thats a big difference

True... no one really brings up the 4 link or rear suspension, Id suggest it's a race only application, Same with the XV and Alter K ation, It's a BIG $$ ticket that most people jump into without realizing all they needed was to dial the excisting suspension in, upgrade those old Rubber bushings, Chuck those old school shocks, and add a set of Sway bars Front and REAR !!

If your looking for more...Now is the time to consider tightening up that old unibody with Subframe connectors, torque Boxes, Chassis Gussets, Forward Frame plates, Lower Rad supports and Inner fender supports.

Now if your still not happy....., Only Now ! you should consider the Hotchkis setup, Firm Feel Or "PST's suspension upgrades.

Keep in mind your Brakes and Rims and Tires now need upgrading.
thinking you may like to enter some competetive driving events.
Well that is where XV , AlterKtion and Magnumforce sould start coming into play.
Front and rear end setups fully adjustable suspensions offer countless setup options and in most cases it's a lot more work and $$ than you initially imagined.

Start with a Plan,
Check the foundation.
Keep realistic goals.
In most cases all you really needed was a set of good shocks and a new set of swaybars.


Ron

By the way if you have a buddy that says " AHhh you don't really need Rear sway bar".....Good Chance they don'y have one themselves.
You ABSOLUTLY need a rear bar, specially if you want to turn left and right.

That all depends on the car and it's set up though, most street cars un modified need it

 

[lxmodguy]

I have a smokin deal on suspension for gold members. you spend a lot of money trying to upgrade stock suspension to something useful. If you compare pricing you can't be a Tubular K kit with A arms

 

[Big Sugar]

I have a smokin deal on suspension for gold members. you spend a lot of money trying to upgrade stock suspension to something useful. If you compare pricing you can't be a Tubular K kit with A arms

Can you re_Phraze that ?

 

[conv67bdere]

The XV is only about 1k more than the Alterkations. So with price being almost equal, Maybe alterkations is the way to go because of the reputation.

I'm battling with the same decision on my car and I too am trying to do all the research and get the right answer - if there is a "right" answer.

My car is bone stock right now, and I'm taking it all apart to see where it is. One of the lower control arms is broken, so both lowers will need to be re-built. Then as stated here, you'll need to buy all new bushings, and pay the shop to get them pressed in for you. They have stated that you can add a sway bar ( that comes with the Alterktion ), you'll need to upgrade your shocks, rebuild the PS gearbox, oh, and I'd like to upgrade to disc brakes up front. So, some of the upgrades are included in the kits, and they'll knock 70 pounds off the weight of your car. Now that you've got it all rebuilt, new bushings, shocks, etc, etc. etc. - you still have a front suspension that's 45 years old.

I'd like to see a cost by cost ( side by side ) comparison of all the parts that are needed to go into rebuilding the car
1 - stock with new bushings, shop fees, ( with or without sway bar ), shocks, rebuilt PS gearbox ( Cranky says they can handle GREAT )
2 - upgrade to use parts from firm feel or Hotchkis plus all the other parts that need to be replaced
3 - upgrade to an Alterktion ( which is new rack-and-pinion, shocks, tubular upper and lowers ) . . .

Plus I would plan on offering all my old parts for sale here to help with the purchase of the Kit bought ( Alterktion, XV, etc ).

If the price difference is minimal ( you have to decide what is minimal for your budget ) the why not upgrade to a new state of the art front end ? ?

I'm still trying to find the answer to this myself . . . I'll be following this thread

 

[69RRGTX]

I thought I would chime in on this topic. I recently pondered the same, and went with the "as nice as I can make it" original style suspension for my 69 GTX. Part of the deciding factor for me was the look of the car, it is very unassuming, and I like it that way. I would have gone with the new style from Magnum Force, had I decided to go aftermaket. Here is what i went with on the front:

Firm Feel UCAs
FF rebuilt / assembled LCAs
FF 11/16" tie rod kit,
FF Stage 3 PS box
FF 1.06" Torsion bars
FF fast ratio puitman and idler arms
Hotchkis strut bars
Car had Edlebrock IAS shocks already, and a 1 1/4" front say bar

Added a Disco tech power disc brake set up from Dr. Diff

Added a Hotchkis rear sway bar and XHD leaf springs last year

Nothing I did was too fancy and, while not cheap, FAR less expensive than any of the bolt in suspensions.

Keep in mind I did not do it for price, what drove me was both a desire to see how well I could make the car handel with Mopar style components. As well as the overall lock I want the car to have.

Good luck to you,

Mark

PS: I will be adding torque boxes and frame connectors this winter when the car goes in for touch ups at a body shop.

 

[conv67bdere]

69RRGTX - thanks for the information - how happy are you with the way the car handles ? The ability to do a dead on alignment and hold the alignment ?

Seen posts from a couple guys that state Original Mopar components ( and some upgrades ) can make a world of difference in the handling.

Hotchkis has a showroom 30 minutes from me in Race City ( Mooresville NC ) - so that and easy option for me.

Now the big question - bolt on front ends will run you $5000 - 6000 ( + / - ) - can you share with us the cost you have in your Upgrades while keeping many Original Mopar parts ?

That would help some of the rest of us to have a comparison and use it to help us figure out our direction ( budget permitting - of course ).

THANKS

 

[Lowhound]

Try some U S Car Tool frame connectors to tie the front 1/2 to the rear 1/2 then do the suspension.

 

[69RRGTX]

69RRGTX - thanks for the information - how happy are you with the way the car handles ? The ability to do a dead on alignment and hold the alignment ?

Seen posts from a couple guys that state Original Mopar components ( and some upgrades ) can make a world of difference in the handling.

Hotchkis has a showroom 30 minutes from me in Race City ( Mooresville NC ) - so that and easy option for me.

Now the big question - bolt on front ends will run you $5000 - 6000 ( + / - ) - can you share with us the cost you have in your Upgrades while keeping many Original Mopar parts ?

That would help some of the rest of us to have a comparison and use it to help us figure out our direction ( budget permitting - of course ).

THANKS

I have around 3500 in the whole works. I did already own the shocks and sway bar for the front.

Figure 375 for a steering box from Firm Feel
UCAs 325, LCAs 355 (boxed, straitened, powder coated, poly bushed w/ greasable pins)
11/16 inner/outer tie rod kit 225
1.06 t bars 355
fast ratio piman and idler arms 290 ( optional, if on a budget, do this later)
sector support kit 135
strut bars 300
So that is 2360.00, like I said I had good shocks and a nice sway bar already.

For the brakes my disco tech style 11.75" rotor complete kit was about 750.00 and very complete.

I also replaced the booster, m/c assy for 450.00 +/- ( I was not planning oin that but it helps a lot)

Cleaned and reused the t=bar adjusters, boots, clips, center link, and that is about all.

Alignment was 80.00, and it fell right into the specs Firm Feel suggested. 1/2 to -1 degree of negative camber, 4 degrees of positive caster (mine is actually at 5 ) and 1/8 - 1/4" toe in.

I have not had enough time in it to tell you how well it "holds an alignment" But with no more strut rod bushings and 6 poly bushings holding the front together, I don't see any problems. The car handles very well, and I like the stage III steering box with the fast ratio arms but I could see some people not wanting their steering that stiff. I is now a 12:1 ratio, stock p/s is 16:1, manual 24:1 so she steers quickly.

Future plans are for Hotchkis shock all the way around, and the car will be getting torque boxes and frame connectors soon.

As for the bolt in kits, I have an alterkation on my roadrunner, but it was put on for racing purposes (weight, high speed stability) I would like to build another car with the high end magnum force front end, I would just have my chassis shop fab up the rear suspension, any good one can. But I figured 20k for total suspension, brakes, wheels tires...... That will be in a few years!

Good luck to you...

 

[Jim Bob The Dancing Bear]

I am not on here alot but I am about to do my next round of upgrades (brakes, rims and tires, and top of the motor) and I am doing some research.

I went with the Hotchkis TVS kit, Firm Feel 1.06 bars, Firm Feel lower control arm gusets (tig welded on for 25 bucks at a local shop), Poly Bushings (PST) and moog for the rest (ball joints, idler arm etc). I have between 4,500 and 5K in everything. I still need to weld on my sub frame connectors and switch to power steering. With a year and a half on the car I have found that even without the sub frame connectors I have to be very carefull in corners. The stockish size 225/60/14's will roll over so bad they will rub on the heim joints where the tie rods used to be. She handles very flat in corners and I have had zero issues with the Hotchkis stuff. I have bilsteen shocks but will be upgrading to the fox shocks once Hotchkis comes out with them (still in testing).

Even if you Auto X I beleive a stock style suspension will work great. The nut behind the wheel will need the most work. The money you save on the more exotic suspensions could go to gas and tires imporving your skils.

 

[Photon440]

If you go to all the trouble of a custom built suspension, you aren't going to be running bias-belted tires on it. You're going to get something decent like a Michelin Pilot SS for example. So you might as well get the tires first, find out how amazing the grip is, and decide if you really need to go much further after that.

 

[Supershafts]

If you go to all the trouble of a custom built suspension, you aren't going to be running bias-belted tires on it. You're going to get something decent like a Michelin Pilot SS for example. So you might as well get the tires first, find out how amazing the grip is, and decide if you really need to go much further after that.

You might want to do that first as explained and see if you need to do any suspension work at all, tires can make you a better driver than you are, and even exceed your ability, so you may have no need for suspension work.

Case in point, watch this video if you can, https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1109043288845&set=vb.1309720367&type=3&theater it starts at 1.13, watch the Jeep, and in the last vid where they reverse the race laps the camera operator show the front tire of the Jeep rolling over, the mustang is on race tires, yet the Jeep has schooled many a sports car, even those showing up with race tires and having some suspension work.
You may want to take that advice and try the tires first and see if anything else is needed

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1109043288845&set=vb.1309720367&type=3&theater

 

[gearheadbill]

Altercation,no surprises just great setup,and Bill is a guy you can talk to and get all the help you need!

 

[Supershafts]

I'll second that, Bill is a great guy, great stuff also

 

[70B]

I just have to weigh in here a couple of years late for this convo, but for the future readers let me say the RMS alterKation front end is awesome. I put one in a 70' Super Bee and that was a great decision. Pricey, yes. Worth what you pay, yes. The difference from stock is night and day. Tried a Feel firm steering box, meh. Rebuilt the stock front end, meh. Installed the Riley Motor Sports AlterKation front end and WOW, instant rails to ride on! Every time I get in that car it means "fun"!

 

[mopar 3 B]

Our you could spend some of that money and go to a good driving school and learn how to drive what you have. Why spend 10,000 and still not know how to drive it?

 

[747mopar]

First off I can say nothing about the exotic stuff because I've never tried it but can tell you what I did. I knew that my car would never be auto crossed but still wanted a good firm handling car that didn't dive in the corners so here's what I did. After allot of pricing and hunting I decided a complete suspension kit from Just Suspension would be the ticked for me and chose to upgrade to the tubular upper a arms to cure the main ailment of the old Mopar.

The kit included...

Tubular upper A arms

Leave springs (upgraded to the heavier spring with a 2" drop)

Heavier torsion bars (can't remember the Dia. but can measure it)

All Poly bushings

Strut rods

Ball joints

Tie rod ends

New tie rod sleeves

Pitman arm

Idler arm

Shackles

Shocks

I also rebuilt the power steering box and pump, put all brand new brakes all the way around (factory disc conversion with drums in the rear), lowered the front to match the back and put 18X8s up front and 19X10s out back. In the end I can say I've never experienced wheel hop, it takes corners very nicely, rides smooth, stops great and is still simple to work on and no expensive parts to worry about. The only complaint I have and will try to correct this year is the car feels like there is zero toe, you have to steer a bit much for me but I believe toeing it in just a fuzz will cure this.

I guess I put allot of emphasis on reliability and I seriously doubt any of these kits will outlast the factory setup so to me that was the big thing.
As for brakes I have a very simple way of thinking there "If your brakes are capable of locking up the tires then you can't stop them anymore than that"? I do want disc out back for the nicer look though. Having said all of that I'm certain I'd love the Alterkation setup or even a four link out back but have proven to myself that an upgraded factory setup does just fine at a fraction of the cost.

 

[mrsnicks]

I had a bone stock 71 Charger with 14" wheels/skinny tires and drum brakes. I found the stock LCA's to use factory disc brakes and a factory front sway bar. In the process I rebuilt the front suspension using rubber (GASP!) bushings. I put 15" aluminum wheels, 225/75/15 cooper tires on it. I put new Monroe sensamatic shocks all around and it was a night & day difference. I'm still looking for a factory rear sway bar setup so I cannot comment on how that will improve/change the handling.