Factory 4bbl Holley on the 440?

[DAMatt]

Today I just found out that the 1968 383 had a factory Holley carb option.
Can anybody confirm whether the 440 also had a 4bbl Holley carb option? With the ported manifold/heads, the carb becomes a major bottleneck, and I understand that the Holley can be seriously modified on the inside to go to 950-1000cfm. So does anybody have any additional info on 4bbl Holleys on the 440 from the factory? Thanks

 

[RemCharger]

The low performance 383 and 440 came with small 4160 holleys .( in general)
In most cases, you can swap any holley you want onto your car.
With a better description of what you have, and what you want to achieve, we can help select a carb with you.

 

[toolmanmike]

Today I just found out that the 1968 383 had a factory Holley carb option.
Can anybody confirm whether the 440 also had a 4bbl Holley carb option? With the ported manifold/heads, the carb becomes a major bottleneck, and I understand that the Holley can be seriously modified on the inside to go to 950-1000cfm. So does anybody have any additional info on 4bbl Holleys on the 440 from the factory? Thanks

R3918 1968 440-4 Automatic 4160 series. And really, they cannot be modified to 1000 cfm.

 

[gooser]

my mother had a 67 chysler 300 440 350hp it had a 4160 holley on it

 

[lewtot184]

modifying one of those factory holleys to big cfm is really stretching the making of a purse from a sow's ear.

 

[toolmanmike]

modifying one of those factory holleys to big cfm is really stretching the making of a purse from a sow's ear.

If it's the 4160's with the transfer tube it can't be done. This carb was probably a 650 cfm or so. A long way from 1000 cfm.

 

[Dave6T4]

The Magnum and Commando motors got the Carter AVS, while the low-power ones got the Holley. The orange motor in my 1969 Super Bee had an AVS, while a friend's '69 Coronet 500 came with a green 383 with a Holley. By reading all the hot rod magazines of the time, they gave all us young gearheads the impression that any Holley carb was the best choice out there. I felt gypped because my 'Bee came with the Carter.

 

[lewtot184]

The Magnum and Commando motors got the Carter AVS, while the low-power ones got the Holley. The orange motor in my 1969 Super Bee had an AVS, while a friend's '69 Coronet 500 came with a green 383 with a Holley. By reading all the hot rod magazines of the time, they gave all us young gearheads the impression that any Holley carb was the best choice out there. I felt gypped because my 'Bee came with the Carter.

i think most of us who lived in that muscle car era were duped by the holley myth. i used to run my road runner a bunch down the track and the myth got busted when the car ran identical times between a 780cfm holley and a 440avs.

 

[Demonic]

Usually the A/C cars got the factory Holleys for some reason. A few folks rob the throttle shaft and put them in bigger carbs for a "factory" look.

 

[PRHeads]

My .02......

If you want bigger flow along with the stock-ish look, you’d be way better off starting with a 4150 850vs carb(80531), and “dressing it up” with side hung float bowls.

 

[lewtot184]

My .02......

If you want bigger flow along with the stock-ish look, you’d be way better off starting with a 4150 850vs carb(80531), and “dressing it up” with side hung float bowls.

i used to do that with a 950 3bbl about 53yrs ago.

 

[RJRENTON]

The Magnum and Commando motors got the Carter AVS, while the low-power ones got the Holley. The orange motor in my 1969 Super Bee had an AVS, while a friend's '69 Coronet 500 came with a green 383 with a Holley. By reading all the hot rod magazines of the time, they gave all us young gearheads the impression that any Holley carb was the best choice out there. I felt gypped because my 'Bee came with the Carter.

In your instance, you go the better of the two carbs.....the Holley 4160 was more for emissions rather than performance......just my opinion of course....
BOB RENTON

 

[DAMatt]

I am trying to comply to f.a.s.t. rules. So that rules out any carb that was not an option on my make/model/engine/year. Sole exception is that I can use an Edelbrock instead of the Carter, probably because it's almost a replica. So if the 1968 Charger 440 only got the Carter AVS, I am only allowed to use it, or an Eddie.

Anybody know somebody that can do the equivalent of head porting to a factory carb / Edelbrock 800?

 

[lewtot184]

from my recent experience with a stock 440 and iron intake the factory avs does seem to have a performance advantage over the 750 edebrock; not big but i think there's something there. what i've wanted to do, but don't have the parts to do it with, is take the throttle shafts and blades out of carter 750 (mopar carb) and put them in a 440avs (they're more streamlined) and add a contoured divider between the two back barrels like the afbs to streamline it. there's almost no difference in venturi area between the factory 440avs and an 800 edelbrock. i think the earlier sand cast carters have bigger passages between the jets and emulsion tube wells and are machined a little cleaner. an 800 edelbrock would need the manifold machined for the throttle bores but if your FAST racing stuff will get changed anyway. could be fun to play with but it would take a little time and patience.

i tried doing some performance stuff with factory holleys back in the day and results were rather dismal. they aren't like what we think of as a conventional holley. the non-adjustable factory float bowls have the small .075" needle and seat and won't take any fuel pressure and there's a small brass balance tube between the front and rear float bowls that adds to confusion. i think first step would be getting rid of both of these problems before any serious work can be done.

 

[gooser]

the 64 t bolts ran 750 cfm 4160s

 

[Demonic]

So if the 1968 Charger 440 only got the Carter AVS, I am only allowed to use it,

You could get A/C in a 68 R/T charger. Run the Holley.

 

[DAMatt]

Actually mine is fitted with factory A/C. There is a special version of the Carter, made for A/C, mine is 4637S. Code for non A/C is different. So unfortunately A/C is still not Holley.

Perhaps the C bodies, which had standard performance 440s in '68, would split the use of a Carter / Holley for A/C. / non A/C duty.... what do you think?

 

[PRHeads]

Sounds like the Transylvanian chapter of the FAST class is pretty strict.

 

[lewtot184]

the 64 t bolts ran 750 cfm 4160s

last summer i did the carbs and tune on a friends t-bolt clone 427 hi-riser, very nice car with correct pieces, his car had 4150's on it. i didn't measure the venturi but they were either 715's or 780's. either way it's a really cool set-up that drives and performs nicely.

 

[Geoff 2]

Carter 750 AVS v Edel 800 AVS. The Edel carb has 1/16" larger t/bores. [ pri & sec venturiis are also larger, hence the additional 50 cfm flow ] The Edel also has venturiis in the secondaries which in my opinion is an improvement over the original Carter design.