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Factory original Chrysler ammeter-based Charging System and additional loading. Load placement matters!

72RoadrunnerGTX

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There have been some recent threads here where the subject of connecting loads at the battery on unmodified stock factory charging systems has come up. As an old-time Chrysler dealer/factory trained master tech, with that specific dealer experience back then and the many years spent designing and installing aftermarket 12-volt DC power/charging systems professionally for high-end automotive and marine applications, leaves me perplexed frankly about some of the responses from some otherwise seasoned appearing members here. Its clear some just can’t separate this stock factory charging system, in its original form, from every other 12-volt automotive charging system in general. The attempts at written descriptions and diagraming to differentiate this system appears to have fallen on some deaf ears, or blind eyes in this case.

For those that are interested in a fact-based video presentation on this subject, specific to the original Chrysler factory charging system design and touching a bit on ammeters/melted bulkhead connectors, I submit this video, forgive the amateur production quality. Feel free to critique the info presented but stay on subject of the as original Chrysler charging systems from this time period please.

For those who can’t separate this charging system from every other vehicle on the road, are convinced an ammeter-based charging system is a "ticking time bomb" while placing loads where ever, or already understand the negative impact of adding loads to the battery on the as original Chrysler ammeter-based charging system, don’t waste your time (about 28 minutes start to finish) watching this video, you'll never get the time back.

Disclaimer, once more, this information does not apply to any modified, ammeter by-passed, volt-meter converted, engine compartment main charge circuit by-passed Chrysler charging system, or every other charging system configuration on the planet not running a battery ammeter. Load placement does not matter for most other systems.





Adding in links to the slides used in the video.
Slide 1
Slide 2
Slide 3
Slide 4
Slide 5
Slide 6
 
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Thanks for the video.
I went through some modding when replacing the electrical system in my car.
I kept the ammeter cos I like the info it gives. Used PCB fiber boards as insulators + rubber tubing where the studs pass through the holes.
Used thicker wires through the firewall and connected my electrical fan to the alternator (Fused).
95 Amp alt and the car has ran great for years now. Ammeter at 0. :thumbsup:

68_wiring.jpg
 
Thanks for the video.
I went through some modding when replacing the electrical system in my car.
I kept the ammeter cos I like the info it gives. Used PCB fiber boards as insulators + rubber tubing where the studs pass through the holes.
Used thicker wires through the firewall and connected my electrical fan to the alternator (Fused).
95 Amp alt and the car has ran great for years now. Ammeter at 0. :thumbsup:

View attachment 1569686
This diagram sounds familiar LOL

great my suggestions worked for you… good for those who don’t believe (posting red X post after post) what I say about the alt upgrade is safer to the stock system design as far the accs added are correctly sourced!

(even without add any acc)
 
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Is this 50 amp circuit breaker a good example of what to use when adding accessories like headlight relays, amplifier, msd, or vintage air? My car is always showing a 25% charge and after watching this video I’m 100% sure it’s because I have addons on the battery side of the ammeter.


My vintage air is connected to the key-on lug of the starter relay and my amp is on the positive post of the battery. Both items are properly fused, just connected in the wrong place? That means both items are drawing current from the battery instead of the alternator, which is why my ammeter is in a constant state of “C”. I want to make sure I understand this correctly.

IMG_1516.png
 
Is this 50 amp circuit breaker a good example of what to use when adding accessories like headlight relays, amplifier, msd, or vintage air? My car is always showing a 25% charge and after watching this video I’m 100% sure it’s because I have addons on the battery side of the ammeter.


My vintage air is connected to the key-on lug of the starter relay and my amp is on the positive post of the battery. Both items are properly fused, just connected in the wrong place? That means both items are drawing current from the battery instead of the alternator, which is why my ammeter is in a constant state of “C”. I want to make sure I understand this correctly.

View attachment 1570061
Yep, that works. To be clear, your loads connected as you describe are pulling their current load from the alternator, across the ammeter while running, that's why they are showing as a constant charge. I've seen audio amps connected at the battery that virtually turns the ammeter into what looks like a V.U. meter while playing at some volume.

2022-11-01 21-00 Copy of 20190718_081728.jpg

Alt out.jpg
 
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Is this 50 amp circuit breaker a good example of what to use when adding accessories like headlight relays, amplifier, msd, or vintage air? My car is always showing a 25% charge and after watching this video I’m 100% sure it’s because I have addons on the battery side of the ammeter.


My vintage air is connected to the key-on lug of the starter relay and my amp is on the positive post of the battery. Both items are properly fused, just connected in the wrong place? That means both items are drawing current from the battery instead of the alternator, which is why my ammeter is in a constant state of “C”. I want to make sure I understand this correctly.

View attachment 1570061
You need to watch the posters video. You need to upgrade the big wire off the alternator. Along with the upgrades he clearly illustrated. Its only 12 gauge and that is rated for 30 amps at 4.9 feet.
 
Thanks for the video.
I went through some modding when replacing the electrical system in my car.
I kept the ammeter cos I like the info it gives. Used PCB fiber boards as insulators + rubber tubing where the studs pass through the holes.
Used thicker wires through the firewall and connected my electrical fan to the alternator (Fused).
95 Amp alt and the car has ran great for years now. Ammeter at 0. :thumbsup:

View attachment 1569686
Chrysler used a similar setup in the police cars for the alternator amperage gauge. Straight through with a grommet and no quick connection at the firewall as was for the regular production cars. They knew that was an issue in 1970. I saw it in the Plymouth FSM.
 
There have been some recent threads here where the subject of connecting loads at the battery on unmodified stock factory charging systems has come up. As an old-time Chrysler dealer/factory trained master tech, with that specific dealer experience back then and the many years spent designing and installing aftermarket 12-volt DC power/charging systems professionally for high-end automotive and marine applications, leaves me perplexed frankly about some of the responses from some otherwise seasoned appearing members here. Its clear some just can’t separate this stock factory charging system, in its original form, from every other 12-volt automotive charging system in general. The attempts at written descriptions and diagraming to differentiate this system appears to have fallen on some deaf ears, or eyes in this case.

For those that are interested in a fact-based video presentation on this subject, specific to the original Chrysler factory charging system design and touching a bit on ammeters/melted bulkhead connectors, I submit this video, forgive the amateur production quality. Feel free to critique the info presented but stay on subject of the as original Chrysler charging systems from this time period please.

For those who can’t separate this charging system from every other vehicle on the road, are convinced an ammeter-based charging system is a "ticking time bomb" while placing loads where ever, or already understand the negative impact of adding loads to the battery on the as original Chrysler ammeter-based charging system, don’t waste your time (about 28 minutes start to finish) watching this video, you'll never get the time back.

Disclaimer, once more, this information does not apply to any modified, ammeter by-passed, volt-meter converted, engine compartment main charge circuit by-passed Chrysler charging system, or every other charging system configuration on the planet not running a battery ammeter. Load placement does not matter for most other systems.


OUTSTANDING PRESENTATION and side bar comments, combined with excellent documentation and explanations. There are several "experts" who haunt the forum with their interpretation of the operation (who have no clue as to the correct operation and electrical systems in general) who just copy someone else's work as their own. You are to be commended for your efforts along with the production of the video....THANK YOU for your presentation......regards...
BOB RENTON
 
This is excellent info. Finally a clear explanation. I was going to try to work through this as a winter project because of all the conflicting info out there. THANK YOU!!!
 
This video was exactly what i was looking for! My accessories are connected wrong and now i know how to feed them properly and i understand WHY to do it that way. Thank you very much for the info and the video production was very good!
 
This diagram sounds familiar LOL

great my suggestions worked for you… good for those who don’t believe (posting red X post after post) what I say about the alt upgrade is safer to the stock system design as far the accs added are correctly sourced!

(even without add any acc)
For sure Nacho, you were the first one that I found that advocated this.
I have studied electronics in school and worked with it all my life. When I encountered my cars electrical system for the first time your drawings made the most sense, so a huge thanks for that. :thumbsup:
 
Chrysler used a similar setup in the police cars for the alternator amperage gauge. Straight through with a grommet and no quick connection at the firewall as was for the regular production cars. They knew that was an issue in 1970. I saw it in the Plymouth FSM.
Yes, I touched on the factory “fleet by-pass” a bit in the video. As another example of the factory awareness of the bulkhead Packard connector weakness in the charge circuit from the time is a C-body recall (Recall 48549) that took place in the mid-seventies. Early seventies C-bodies ran this same charging system and fuse panel. More factory loads on the C-bodies typically than the other platforms (i.e. power windows, A/C). The alternator feed bulkhead Packard terminals being even more current stressed from the factory loads than the other platforms. The recall involved installing a premade 6 foot, or so, 12ga black wire with a ring terminal on one end and a female Packard terminal on the other. A molded plastic oval gromet was placed in between. The wire was installed to parallel the charge circuit to the fuse box from the alternator. Ring terminal at the alternator stud, the female Packard connected to the fuse panel “Batt” male spade at the bottom of the fuse panel. The gromet was designed to replace the firewall clutch pedal rod hole blank. Effectively paralleling the original alternator to splice 1 feed.

Cbodyrecall-Stock Charging system diagram engine on.png


Recalls for 1973 Chrysler New Yorker
 
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Back in 2007 when I was fairly new on this ( and just member of dodgecharger.com board ) and on my pretty much basic English i posted a pretty much similar info, where I NEVER say it was my idea (neither here), but only explaining one option, for those who still have the stock system in working order but just reinforcing it with a parallel circuit based on what MaMopar made on fleet cars. Along the years I updated some extra info and ideas.

Some considerations about the charging and wiring upgrade and your worries about

There I explain how the loads play on the circuit at diff stages and the reason why the accs added must be added on alt side of the system. Also the reason why a better alt output capacity will keep safer the charging system. As far I know this info about the loads play and what it means on amm reading was fairly new being posted on boards for lot of ppl, hence why it was took as reference for many ppl and began to be called as the “Nacho’s parallel circuit upgrade“ or something like that. The tittle was posted by the ppl, not by me. I never took credit of the initial idea, just floated up, explained why and how it works.

There is where Jonas and me met and he based his upgrade. He started a diff thread requesting info on charger board for his car where we interchanged info and the diagram he just posted based on one I made for him showing the bulkhead alt wire making a loop to reinforce the main splice into the cab coming from the new wire arriving to amm stud, as another option for this. This was maybe back in 2014 or so?

Once I thought on make a vid about diff load situations and ammeter response on the car but then took my car to a body shop maybe thousand miles away from home so never could made it.

thanks to 72RoadrunnerGTX on take the time to prepare this on a more formal way and with more info added. Of course on a correct mother language english LOL.

There is a guy on FABO board also member of Moparts (where my thread become also popular and also got ppl against that option) called Mattax who took my thread as reference to similar information website as a reference to many ppl around. He asked for my permision to use my info and diagrams on his website.

Understanding Charging Systems with Ammeter

(this could be a weight over the shoulders of some member(s) around)
 
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On my 67 Charger alternator wiring, I have one field wire (green) that runs to my voltage regulator field post and my battery wire (black) see attached photos. I was told I am supposed to have a second field wire but my service manual does not show a 3rd wire. Also, the company that built my wiring harness does not have a 3rd wire.

I am experiencing dead battery syndrome and trying to find the source of my problem. I have also been told to run a wire directly from my alternator to the positive battery post to make sure my battery is charging but to me that is not solving the problem. Any thoughts ? I did watch you video and found it to be very educational.

Green alternator wire.jpg


Alternator wires s-l1600 engine wiring harness AMS Obsolete.jpg


voltage regulator and ballast resistor.jpg
 
On my 67 Charger alternator wiring, I have one field wire (green) that runs to my voltage regulator field post and my battery wire (black) see attached photos. I was told I am supposed to have a second field wire but my service manual does not show a 3rd wire. Also, the company that built my wiring harness does not have a 3rd wire.

I am experiencing dead battery syndrome and trying to find the source of my problem. I have also been told to run a wire directly from my alternator to the positive battery post to make sure my battery is charging but to me that is not solving the problem. Any thoughts ? I did watch you video and found it to be very educational.

View attachment 1571204

The alternator connector there in the top in your pic.
You need to ground it to the alternator casing.
 
Aside the personal war this guy gets with me, I don get why the red x on my previous reply considering @72RoadrunnerGTX info posted here and what I have been saying since way back in 2007 is practically the same info, with more or less details, but same basic info. Is amazing. Both of us in fact have been agreed and defending on this since ever, with minor differences or opinions on how to deal with the upgrade, but this specific guy allways becomes conflictive.

———————————————————


on a side note

@Dean Prevolos that’s actually a question for a separated/diff thread, not for this. You can also search for several threads around where this issue is discussed. But if you want to know, you got a “dual field” squareback alt used since 72. The one you have is more specific from lates 70s where the squareback version was revised with a wider stator and casing hidding it. Since 1970 when electronic regulators (actually on lates 69s) become standard, the alternators changed to a dual field (still roundbacks on 70/71) while previous years are single field, where one of the brushes is attached directly to the housing beig grounded, hence why you have an unmatched setup. You can solve it as mentioned grounding the extra prong, with a jumper wire from prong to ground (chassis alt works) or replacing the isolator washer down the prong brush attaching screw with a metallic one. If you replace the washer, cap the grounded prong to save from connect the field wire to the grounded brush, because if you do, will short out as soon you put the key in RUN.
 
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BTW, @Dean Prevolos checking furtherly the pic you posted I THINK YOUR FIELD WIRE IS CONNECTED TO AN ALREADY GROUNDED BRUSH with a metalic washer down the attaching screw.. I Thing I’m seeing a metallic piece and non the correct isolation one. Maybe your alt is ready for single wire/field operation… if so, connect the field wire to the other prong or you will get a short that will burn the wiring. Ignition system (which also feeds the regulator) is not fuse protected. And the fuse link will take its time to blow, while the green wire will begin to melt everything around. Do mech regs gets a fuse on their interior? Not sure. There are some members around who already got this experience burning wires around because the alts they get with the mod already made didn’t get instructions about this

please check for this before put the ign switch in RUN, and get the harness melted.
 
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