Faulty ignition key cylinder keep starter engaged?

440beep

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Started the car this morning and everything was fine. Shut her down and restarted and there was loud screeching. Turned ignition key off, but the starter stayed engaged and kept spinning the motor. Disconnected battery to stop it.

I’ve been over everything, and everything checks. Another Mopar buddy told me it could be the key ignition cylinder.

Is this possible? Other than starter terminal touching each other, I’m really at a loss with this issue.
 

Don Frelier

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If it's an original gear reduction starter then Likely it's the starter itself.
When the starter relay sends power it drives out the shaft on the starter.
When it extends it makes contact to power the drive motor.
You can try and lubricate the shaft but I would pull it out and clean inspect and bench test it
 

440beep

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the starter is brand new, Dakota mini starter. (And this is a continuation of issues from my other posts)

If it's an original gear reduction starter then Likely it's the starter itself.
When the starter relay sends power it drives out the shaft on the starter.
When it extends it makes contact to power the drive motor.
You can try and lubricate the shaft but I would pull it out and clean inspect and bench test it
 

dadsbee

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If the starters not stuck, it's the relay on the firewall. Unhook the brown spaded end wire and hook the battery back up. That'll tell you if it's the starter itself. No run, it's the starter relay or the ignition is staying hot (which I doubt). Next pull the yellow wire off the starter relay and hook the brown wire back up. Starter runs your starter relay (on the firewall) is stuck. If it doesn't then it's your ignition, hook the yellow back on with the key turned off and see if it runs..
 
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Bee1971

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On my 71 Bee - This scenario drove me crazy for more then a few summers

Remember , It only happened on occasion

The factory or reproduction positive battery cable that runs down to the starter

I would start the car , engine running , and the starter would still stay engaged on occasion

Shut the key off , engine off , and starter is free wheeling

Remove the hood pins , pull the hood release , pop off the negative cable

Went through numerous starter relays , ignition switch , checking grounds , bulkhead connector , blah blah

Test lights - Multi Meter - Wife crazy in the car

One day I just said , car is not leaving the garage - Started removing all the vinyl wrap on wiring harnesses from the starter relay thu bulkhead - Removed the starter and positive cable assembly

Took the wrap off the reproduction positive wire cable , and was like , really that simple , but hidden well

Here internally , the smaller positive wire that energizes the starter solenoid off the starter relay was grounding out on the factory frame bracket (The black rubber coating for the two prong bracket was worn off) for the positive cable holder down by the frame , melted internally the insulation on the large feed positive wire for the starter along with the insulation on the small feed wire

And when I hit the key , and on occasion , combustion LOL

And mostly all covered up by the black tape and black wrap when they made the reproduction cable for a 71 B Body

Had me scratching for many car shows and in the garage every time I went to start the car

Took that factory bracket off , blasted and dipped in that rubber tool coating on the prongs

New reproduction positive battery cable

Amazing ever since
 
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Don Frelier

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To rule out the ignition switch you could wire in a momentary pushbutton ( doorbell) to the starter relay yellow wire terminal. If it works fine then you know it's the ignition.
 

volaredon

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the key ignition cylinder carries no electrical current. it is just a lock cylinder. It is linked to the ignition switch end to end, connected end to end with the actual switch.
 

RJRENTON

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IMO, IF the high current contacts in the back end of the solenoid, where the heave battery cable connects (that switches the battery power to the motor windings) stick or weld themselves together, several things occur:
1. The starter motor continues operate
2. The starter drive (aka "bendix") continues to engage the flywheel or converter ring gear, because the solenoid will not allow the shifting fork to retract the drive
3. Once the high current contacts make, the circuit also connects the solenoid holding coil component helps to keep the solenoid coil energized along with the inniating winding. The solenoid coil, in conjunction with the inniating winding is what causes the starter to engage. IF the solenoid coil's inniating coil is not energized, by the start relay, via the ignition switch (and safety interlocks), the engine will NOT crank.
True, some but not all, problems are start relay issues (neutral start switch or clutch disengaged switch, ignition seitch). The most overlooked component are the two high current contacts and copper disk in the solenoid, as the starter must be removed and dis-assembled to inspect their condition. Just something to consider.
BOB RENTON
 
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HALIFAXHOPS

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Had a similar issue on my 88 W1509, was the starter relay stuck in the closed position.
 

440beep

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I’m assuming with each of these steps, I’m trying to start the car too? One of these steps I was uncertain. The Napa starter relay is new, but maybe I should swap in my “made in USA” one instead. I did just redo the yellow wire terminal end, looked crappy before, but maybe I made it more crappy.

If the starters not stuck, it's the relay on the firewall. Unhook the brown spaded end wire and hook the battery back up. That'll tell you if it's the starter itself. No run, it's the starter relay or the ignition is staying hot (which I doubt). Next pull the yellow wire off the starter relay and hook the brown wire back up. Starter runs your starter relay (on the firewall) is stuck. If it doesn't then it's your ignition, hook the yellow back on with the key turned off and see if it runs..
 

dadsbee

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I’m assuming with each of these steps, I’m trying to start the car too? One of these steps I was uncertain. The Napa starter relay is new, but maybe I should swap in my “made in USA” one instead. I did just redo the yellow wire terminal end, looked crappy before, but maybe I made it more crappy.
No you're not trying to start the car. You said the starter continued to rotate the engine and you had to unhook the battery to stop it. Based on that I suggested trying each of my steps and then reconnecting the battery after each step to rule out what is bad. When I said "run" I meant the starter motor, not the engine.
 

440beep

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I should have clarified, the starter staying engaged is sporadic, not consistent. Didn’t happen on Friday, but happened Saturday. Even yesterday while troubleshooting, after some time passed, once I turned battery back on, the starter was fine, no running once power turned back on.

No you're not trying to start the car. You said the starter continued to rotate the engine and you had to unhook the battery to stop it. Based on that I suggested trying each of my steps and then reconnecting the battery after each step to rule out what is bad. When I said "run" I meant the starter motor, not the engine.
 

440beep

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Did both tests and starter was fine. No engagement, and starter didn’t engage when battery power turned on. Started up the car with remote trigger doing both tests again, and it was normal. Hooked up both wires to relay, then did it with the key, and all is fine.

Although yesterday I did mess with the starter terminal wires to space them out more, so maybe that worked.
 

dadsbee

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So next time it "sticks", pull the yellow wire first. If the starter stops then it's the ignition switch. Next the brown wire.. and if it stops it's the starter solenoid. If it doesn't stop after that it's the starter staying engaged on it's own..
 

440beep

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And this is the information I was looking for, what was the testing supposed to tell me. Heaps of thanks for the help!

So next time it "sticks", pull the yellow wire first. If the starter stops then it's the ignition switch. Next the brown wire.. and if it stops it's the starter solenoid. If it doesn't stop after that it's the starter staying engaged on it's own..
 

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