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Feedback on 500 inch build

lxmodguy

Gen3 Hemi Guru
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I will start by saying its been almost 25 years since I built my last big block. It was a stock'ish 383. I obviously build gen3 hemi's all the time. But this is a whole different animal. So here is what I am thinking

500 inch 440 source kit (10:1 for 93 pump)
I have a virgin 73 440 block
their billet main caps and girdle setup
440 source super stealth heads or indy EZ?
Mod Man intake
TTI 2 inch headers
MSD atomic EFI
Comp Hydraulic Roller Cam 242/248@50. .600 lift 110 LSA 1800-6500 Range
440 source roller rockers

I would like to make 600 at the crank.

Thoughts, feedback, suggestions?
 
Fuel injection with dual small turbo's! Great power, and you wont have to spin the motor that fast. I thought I just saw a GM, TPI Style intake available for the Mopar BB around here. Yes, that will piss-off the purists. But to have the advantages of TPI for our BB mopes, that just means the time for change has come.
 
250 duration is about the max of the learning capabilities of the atomic efi. I might be able to stretch it to 260@50 but I would probably have to stretch the LSA to 112 and the centerline to 108 which will raise the power range and tax the injectors beyond their intended duty cycle

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Do you think the 440 super stealth heads will get to 600 with the cam setup I have to work with?
 
BIg motors generally like wide LSAs to begin with. Just something to think about. I think it's all a great plan though. It'll peel the pavement back regardless.
 
So which heads get me to 600? are the EZ-1 going to make up for the smaller cam? Are the super stealths enough?
 
Neat plan you have and yes the SStealths will do it.. I have to ask why 500"? Same money you can do a 543 and that is what will be next for me... Block will have to be bored just the same as the 500 so it is not like having to kill the block..
 
The Stealths will be worthless W/O porting. Lots Of used Eddys and SRs out there stock and ported. I believe they would be a better choice. With quench you can run more than 10-1. EZ helps with headers. Why not a low deck with non EZ raised SR ports?
Doug
 
Neat plan you have and yes the SStealths will do it.. I have to ask why 500"? Same money you can do a 543 and that is what will be next for me... Block will have to be bored just the same as the 500 so it is not like having to kill the block..

Good point and exactly why I am asking these questions. In my research I "thought" it said the 543 had issues with pickup clearance. That it had to run a special oiling system?

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I just found this build based on dvw's SR port suggestion.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0408em_big_block_mopar_engine/viewall.html

This is basically EXACTLY what I am looking for. I am going to put the atomic efi on top of it instead and run 91/93 pump gas.
 
Yup the Stealths will do it......you might want to look for IQ52's opinion on them. It wasn't good. I think he would recommend the regular Stealth instead. I also think the EZs would need less work to get you there, but of course come with a higher price. A kinda get what you pay for sorta thing.
 
solid cam, roller of flat tappet will work much better for this application than a Retro fit HR set up.
use the indys MW intake port
use the girdle, its much less labor intensive than changing main caps
with the alum heads you can shoot for more like 11:1 on the compression, pump will still work

why do you want the mod man intake? better choices out there.
 
There are ton's of threads about heads comparisons

The cylinder heads on the BB B/RB engines are the biggest place to be able to get more power out of a BB Mopar Wedge engine... Also maybe you could use a FASTMAN EFI instead of the MSD Atomic, you can supposedly run allot more camshaft, not limit yourself so much, to let the much bigger engine breath, much better too.... IMHFO I would say "the out of the box heads" heads unported, between those 2 choices, I would choose the Indy head, it's much better, much more money too, the Stealth's can be made to work, nothing really wrong with them, but they need professional porting, with a multi-angle performance valve job & upgraded the cheap retainers, locks, seals & springs, at a minimum, to get the most out of them, bang for the buck so to speak... I personally like the Edelbrock RPMs better, than the Stealth's or even the Indy's for "Bang for the Buck" at the 500-750HP levels, personally I think they have a better overall design & will do the job easily also, but are also more money than the Stealth's are too, but are cheaper/less expensive than the Indy's are too, they are a great center price point heads.... Edelbrock Victors or MP Stage VI Aluminum heads are also other great choices too, they both have much larger ports to begin with, w/280cc vs 210cc {staring points} Intake Port volume, but will need expensive offset rockers & other special parts, you cant use stock type valve train components, like the Stealth's or RPM's, but are still really good affordable aluminum heads, but are more money than the other 3 style aluminum heads listed, to build them correctly.... Almost any head can be made to work, even an old 906 iron head, can be made to work... To get to the 600 HP range you need around a minimum of 300+cfm of flow in the intake ports {2.06hp/per cfm of flow ball park}, easy to achieve with any of the ones mentioned @ a minimum, the heads will be the biggest choke point.... I don't know much about the MSD Atomic EFI, but have read about the Fastman Efi stuff with great reviews, also great tech support, buy the Fastman Efi owner/FBBO member/author of "How to build Max Performance Hemi Engines" a machine shop owner in Calif., Richard Nedbal @ www.fastmanefi.com or 1-209-247-6497 , also we have a great professional head porter & Mopar Muscle Challenge professional engine builder here on FBBO Member/IQ52, Jim LaRoy {also his son Cody}, LaRoy Engines out of Challis Idaho... Mancini Racing is also a great resource... good luck
 
maybe use a FASTMAN EFI instead of the MSD Atomic, you can supposedly run allot more camshaft to let the bigger engine breath too, I would say "the out of the box heads", between those 2 choices, the Indy head is a much better, much more money too, the Stealth's can be made to work, but need professional porting, with a multi-angle performance valve job & upgraded the cheap retainers, locks, seals & springs, at a minimum, to get the most out of them, bang for the buck so to speak... I like the RPMs better than the Stealth's or Indy's for "Bang for the Buck", personally I think they have a better overall design & will do the job easily also, but are also more money than the Stealth's are too, but cheaper than the Indy's are.... to get to the 600 HP range you need a minimum of 300+cfm of flow in the intake ports, easy to achieve with any of the ones mentioned @ a minimum, the heads will be the biggest choke point, I don't know much about the MSD Atomic EFI, but have read about the Fastman Efi stuff with great reviews, also great tech support, buy the Fastman Efi owner/FBBO member/author of "How to build Max Performance Hemi Engines" a machine shop owner in Calif., Richard Nedbal @ www.fastmanefi.com or 1-209-247-6497 , also we have a great professional head porter & Mopar Muscle Challenge engine builder here on FBBO Member/IQ52, Jim LaRoy {also his son Cody}, LaRoy Engines out of Challis Idaho...

Thanks, I have already reached out to Richard and Jim. I am just waiting to hear back from them.

I am not looking for a world beater here. I am perfectly happy with 600 and then I can spray a couple hundred more with a dedicated fuel system down the road. I really want to stay right at that 600 horse mark. The hydraulic roller is to avoid maintenance. I don't want to adjust valve. I want to be able to drive the car anywhere. I have seen good results from the stealths with the porting especially. SO I think I will buy those and let JIM do his work on them.
 
Thanks, I have already reached out to Richard and Jim. I am just waiting to hear back from them.

I am not looking for a world beater here. I am perfectly happy with 600 and then I can spray a couple hundred more with a dedicated fuel system down the road. I really want to stay right at that 600 horse mark. The hydraulic roller is to avoid maintenance. I don't want to adjust valve. I want to be able to drive the car anywhere. I have seen good results from the stealths with the porting especially. SO I think I will buy those and let JIM do his work on them.

good idea, IQ52/Jims the man
 
Thanks, I have already reached out to Richard and Jim. I am just waiting to hear back from them.

I am not looking for a world beater here. I am perfectly happy with 600 and then I can spray a couple hundred more with a dedicated fuel system down the road. I really want to stay right at that 600 horse mark. The hydraulic roller is to avoid maintenance. I don't want to adjust valve. I want to be able to drive the car anywhere. I have seen good results from the stealths with the porting especially. SO I think I will buy those and let JIM do his work on them.

sounds like you've already decided what you are going to use so why ask? having just swapped out a HR in my 440 for a 35 year old MP design flat tappet of similar specs i can tell you your wasting money and time. the retrofit stuff for a BBChrys just doesn't work all that great. you'd be better off with a flat tappet HYD, at least they'll rev up. spend the money you'll save (not buying a HR) and use it on good heads IE INDY or Edelbrocks. but if your really set on HR stuff, i have a set of the crane lifters that will be on the market.
 
Before you buy the Super Stealths, talk to Jim first. Search this section. His opinion of them is here somewhere. He basically said to buy the regular stealths and be done with it.
 
250 duration is about the max of the learning capabilities of the atomic efi. I might be able to stretch it to 260@50 but I would probably have to stretch the LSA to 112 and the centerline to 108 which will raise the power range and tax the injectors beyond their intended duty cycle

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Do you think the 440 super stealth heads will get to 600 with the cam setup I have to work with?

600 HP? Any head will do it with a little bit of work. RPM, Stealth or Super Stealth, heck even the factory 452 iron head. We used our ported 452 iron heads to make 621 HP @ 6100 RPM with 451 CI, 9.5:1 compression, a solid street roller of 256/260 @ .050 and .582"/.588" lift.

But lxmodguy, I think we have since raised the bar substantially to 600 RWHP, haven't we?
 
No doubt. After talking to fastmanefi today, I think I will do the XFI setup. It is basically limitless. So 700 flywheel horsepower seems to be pretty doable with the right combo. Especially out of the right cam and the heads you would be able to do for me. Like I said in my last PM, with the new XFI setup I can put whatever duration cam we want in there. 540 cubes will swallow a lot of duration.
 
540 cubes will need to be quenched close due to the time the piston dwells at top on a street motor. Why I went 500. And yes a 540 requires external oiling.
 
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