1. 70chall440

    70chall440 Well-Known Member

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    if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, its a duck...
     
  2. 70chall440

    70chall440 Well-Known Member

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    This is an issue that will always be contentious with people on both sides. As to buying a "fake", the term "buyer beware" comes to mind and if you are "investing" in a high dollar car, then you should do your due diligence to determine it is what you are willing to pay. This is all about money and the reason that a parts car now is worth $10K.
     
  3. 70chall440

    70chall440 Well-Known Member

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    Ever notice that the whole FT thing is a much bigger issue with B and E body guys... I am sure there are some A and C body guys/gals who are concerned about it but doesn't seem near as much of an issue there (except with the very unique and rare variants).
     
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    • kiwigtx

      kiwigtx International Mod Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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      I wasn't going to go there, but these threads keep popping up here. Getting a bit thin now.

      Remember the ass-clown who perpetuated the lie a couple of years ago...made his own fender tag & VIN, then managed to convince the powers that be at FCI.....to validate the lie. Placing another tag below to try and justify the effort as a Proof body or Mule...or whatever, doesn't cut the mustard, especially when you have a living breathing actual looking car that was allegedly built and subsequently canned.
      I think it was a happy coincidence that the first two digits of the VIN came up as BS....

      upload_2018-11-26_8-16-1.png

      upload_2018-11-26_8-28-7.png

      OMG...it's got paint on it....
      upload_2018-11-26_8-28-48.png

      upload_2018-11-26_8-18-1.png

      All that aside with the obviously controversial and extremely fake fender tag and VIN, it was a top notch 'build' of a Hot Rod, which bore a passing resemblance to the iconic cars actually built by Chrysler of the old days.
       
      Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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      • PP1RT

        PP1RT Well-Known Member

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        Then have i got a deal for you. Let me go add a RR fender tag to my SS and raise the price for you.
        Ok, let's say you are in the market for a 68 Charger R/T. They came standard with a few upgrades from the base model. There were options that make some more desirable than others.

        If you have a car that originally came with a Dana rear and a 4 spd it is worth a little more. So if i add that to a car that didnt have it originally and pop a fake fender tag that is ok?

        Can i take a triple green R/T and change it to triple black and pop a fake tag and that is ok?

        Can i add options like cruise control, power windows, AC, rear defrost, rear speaker, etc and pop a fake tag and that is ok?

        If you think any of the above is ok to do and turn around and sell the car as such i have to question all your morals. You are the kind of person that is a detriment to the hobby if it is.

        Bruce Jenner can spend all the money in the world to become a woman but in the end he is still just a man pretending to be something he never was.
         
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        • kiwigtx

          kiwigtx International Mod Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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          Great analogy...thanks. :rofl:
           
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          • moparedtn

            moparedtn FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            1967-back only. Not possible for '68 and up if I recall correctly.
            There was a fire....

            Lookit, my GTX has the fender tag and build sheet and all that jazz intact and I have made no effort to remove or alter the original fender tag VIN from the car DESPITE the fact it now isn't anything like it was built to be.
            (Original 440 long gone; car was a bench seat automatic originally, now a bucket seat 4 speed. Color: wrong. Wheels: wrong. Rear gears: wrong.)

            Anyone who walks up to the car at a show and knows what they're looking at on the tag can see what has been done to it from stock - and that often leads to friendly conversations and questions.
            They're friendly because they can see I'm not trying to fake anything.
            They're conversations because they can see I'm not even attempting to be dishonest, which leads to story telling about the cars' history and such - as opposed to them doing what others have already said here, namely, walking away without a word, muttering under their breath about what a fraud it is (and I am) and shooting me dirty looks over their shoulder as they climb back into the family Caravan.

            Some try to blow off "badge engineering" as not being serious and try to instead throw shadows on those who object to it.
            Bottom line: you're an honest person or you're not - and it's not somebody else's fault if you aren't.
            Talk about BS...
             
            Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
          • Kern Dog

            Kern Dog FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            I'm right there with you on this.
            My tag is gone...I don't recall if I lost it or never had it. My Charger is a 500 model but over the years I have it dressed like an R/T. If I were to have a tag made, I'd have an "E93" for an engine code to denote the 493 cubic inches, "S27" for HD suspension, some other BS number for the 4 wheel disc brakes, the upgraded seats, etc.
             
          • moparnation74

            moparnation74 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            IBM card...lol.....and go to the CHS:lol:

            For being a newbie here and your obvious limited knowledge. It would be in your best interest to talk to the experts and learn something "correct" about the historical nature and relevance of Mopars....Versus placing a "stigma" on them because you feel jaded.......your little dream tag cannot get made...boo hooo....:eek:
             
          • 70chall440

            70chall440 Well-Known Member

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            Perhaps but I bet you love looking at those optional silicone implants, oh wait they weren't put on by the factory so perhaps not...

            You can question whatever you like, but at the end of the day if you are buying a car solely based on what the FT says then you have issues. Virtually every option has accompanying aspects that indicates whether it is supposed to be there or not despite what the FT says. Almost everything is online these days not to mention these forums, so if you are looking at a car and want to verify the options, it isn't all that hard to do.

            Based on this logic, if someone has a 68 Charger R/T (complete with the options/items provided by the R/T) that doesn't have a FT, it is worth less than one with the FT even if they are identically optioned? So is it 5% less, 10% or ?? less. Say you had this car and a FT was $75, you wouldn't spend that to get that % back? But wait, since you didn't have a FT, how can you be sure it had all the options you see on it when it left the plant, so you would be content to take the less money for it just because of a missing metal plate.

            Obviously we have out positions and neither are going to change them so I'd say this is done.
             
          • 70chall440

            70chall440 Well-Known Member

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            Just to be crystal clear, I am not advocating a fake VIN tag, completely a different subject. This is all about the FT and factory available options; which just for the record could be in many cases added by a dealer, just saying.
             
          • kiwigtx

            kiwigtx International Mod Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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            Based on that logic....the car with the FT is obviously worth more, because it's pedigree can be proven...vs a car with stuff added on and represented as factory optioned.
             
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            • beanhead

              beanhead FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              i_20like_20were_20this_20thread_20is_20going.jpg
               
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              • Maddogmike1001

                Maddogmike1001 Active Member

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                Do you own a 1989 Dodge caravan?I think I might have seen you at a car show

                Walmart car show 00003.jpg
                 
                Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
              • MarPar

                MarPar Swervin' Like Im George Jones FBBO Gold Member

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                Smiley ECS I lift things Up & put them down.jpg
                 
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                • PP1RT

                  PP1RT Well-Known Member

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                  You are gonna spend $75 for false documents. That is fraud in my book.
                  A car with the original fender tag and build sheet is worth more than one without. A repopped tag is equal or less value than a car without. If i knew you were selling a car with a repop tag i would be telling everyone i could.

                  And yes, i have a 68 Charger R/T loaded with several extra options special ordered and have the original FT and build sheet. That is called provenance and will bring a premium over another with similar options and no documentation to prove it if you could find another like it.

                  Invest wisely.
                   
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                  • moparnation74

                    moparnation74 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                    Thanks for proving not only you have limited knowledge but you also have little to none "grey" matter......:thumbsup:
                     
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                    • moparnation74

                      moparnation74 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                      Thats it...HONESTY......Just how many people fess up they have a reproduction FT? Not many and when they do than people either walk away or get very picky and offer less.....

                      BS at certain plants were never put into cars mainly Lynch Road. So when you factor that into the mix depending on the plant you will have a BS and FT or just a FT.

                      When it comes to value. I completely agree with you. The right documentation needs to be there and if not than I am not interested. For the buyers out there that are still interested in a car missing a FT they will want to pay less.....It is a known fact....
                       
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                      • coronet68mx

                        coronet68mx FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                        :rofl:where I can buy one like this ?
                         
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                        • Maddogmike1001

                          Maddogmike1001 Active Member

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                          Okay for the last time if you are looking to spend real money on one of these cars and the only resource you use is the cars Fender tag ... you are a dumbass... There's no way to get around it. The bottom line is most people that get ripped off when they buy one of these cars did not do the research or we're so bent on buying the thing they didn't think ahead.
                           
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