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Fender tag reproduction

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bigmanjbmopar

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A question was raised by a friend of mine about clones, if you were for example want to clone a 68 satellite into a road runner and wanted it to appear like a real package you could have a reproduced fender tag? would you go as far as to do the sequence numbers on the tag as well? Besides all road runners being a base package belvy or satty and the RR is just a package what would the vin info be?

After this conversation I find my self scratching my head wondering if my RR had been cloned and was really a satty?? lol the only thing matching the vin and fender tag are the sequence numbers on the radiator support. motor was not and never got to trans yet think one side of the trunk is but not the other, lid seems to be....

But if you could reproduce that who is to say that a supposed numbers matching car isn't really a clone with fender tag codes just added to fit the current packages on the car?

perplexing......
 
Should also have the numbers on the trunk lip. If you have matching numbers there,and the vin and core support (maybe you have the build sheet too) you should be ok
 
bigmanjbmopar said:
A question was raised by a friend of mine about clones, if you were for example want to clone a 68 satellite into a road runner and wanted it to appear like a real package you could have a reproduced fender tag? would you go as far as to do the sequence numbers on the tag as well? Besides all road runners being a base package belvy or satty and the RR is just a package what would the vin info be?

After this conversation I find my self scratching my head wondering if my RR had been cloned and was really a satty?? lol the only thing matching the vin and fender tag are the sequence numbers on the radiator support. motor was not and never got to trans yet think one side of the trunk is but not the other, lid seems to be....

But if you could reproduce that who is to say that a supposed numbers matching car isn't really a clone with fender tag codes just added to fit the current packages on the car?

perplexing......
Click to expand...

Ask this question on Moparts and get ready,you'll wish you never ask !! !!!
 
A 68 tag can be faked. Sadly it's not illegal, because a tag is not a legal document. It is immoral, but some folks don't care.

A VIN is a legal document. VIN don't lie. RM is RM.

But SO and options? The opprtunity and ease of lying is infinite.

No doubt there are "Road Runners" out there that are frauds. There are people who have no problem breaking laws (new VINs). And the reality is that a car can be faked, along with fake VIN, and fake tag.

IMO - only a faked VIN is breaking the law.
 
the only thing the cops and the DMV care about is the VIN number. the data plate and build sheet only show options and are not used to determine if a car is what it is in the eyes of the law.
 
So if the vin is not a RM21 or RM23 it would be pretty obvious it's not a real RR despite the fender tag unless they were some how able to replace the vin tag with a slavage yard car ? what were the vins for belvy's and sattys's?

And why would I catch flak for trying to get edumicated? lol
 
[QUOTE?

And why would I catch flak for trying to get edumicated? lol[/QUOTE]

Give it a shot and come back and tell us,you will be accused of everything imaginable !!
 
bigmanjbmopar said:
what were the vins for belvy's and sattys's?
Click to expand...

Here goes (somebody correct me if I mess up the Mopar alphabet):

This is for 68 to 70 B-Bodies, since nothing else matters. :grin:

Belvedere VIN is always RL, Belvedere Police is RK, Belvedere Taxi is RT.

Satellite VIN is always RH, Sport Satellite is RP.

GTX VIN is always RS. Road Runner VIN is always RM.

VIN don't lie. RM is RM.

21 is a Coupe, 23 is Hardtop, and 27 is Convertible.

A non-original tag on an assumed Road Runner (real tag from another car - or - repro tag) could say one thing while the VIN says otherwise. The VIN wins. Hence the reason for verifying the VIN first, and then requiring a clear and unbroken chain of documentation, title, and registrations on a rare car, such as a RM21 with Hemi. Those almost always turn out to be RH21 with 318s before being faked.

I have seen 68 tags on a couple occasions with the 73 (Hemi) code on the tag but without the J (Hemi) on the VIN. The seller claims it is an original tag on an original car. It is clearly fake, either by him or a previous owner.

A fake tag is often obvious, because it is always faked to make a car rare or legendary. Hence a lot of fake Road Runners (wrong VIN codes), they were Satellites. And fake GTXs. Popular fakes are 68 Hemi Road Runners and 69 A12 Road Runners. A fake VIN is a crime, so it makes sense to fake the tag, and hope the buyer never asks.

I side with the mob action that is Moparts. They will call out sellers who switch dashes, fake VINs, destroy all the VIN locations, rebody with fraudulent intent. They nail the sellers who fake it. Remember it's never an even-steven fake, it is always a substantial upgrade to rarity or alleged greatness. A Belvy never becomes a Sat, the faker moves up to Runner or GTX. A 318 never becomes a 383, it moves up to 440 or Hemi.
 
Great explanation! In my case the sequence numbers on my vin match the fender tag and rad support but no were else that I could find so I feel 90% confident it's correct but a rad support could be replaced just like a whole dash and back in the 80's they were still commonly sitting in junk yards. Seems like a whole lotta work just to turn a satty into a road runner especially back then when you could still get one for a reasonable price

So there will always be that bit of doubt. How many of you have a bit of doubt about your car?
 
I'm wondering the same thing about my 69 Bee. Most of the metal on the car was replaced but my vin and fender tag match. My rad support doesn't match and rear quaters don't have any numbers on them. Could it be that they replaced the rad support? The car is red now but original color was Bronz fire and I do see places where the paint has chiped and the bronz is underneath. But I still have some doubts because the rad support. Where do u find info on previous owners of cars?
 
Looks like this thread should be renamed "Who's Your Daddy". :eek:

The pedigree matters when you see the car as an investment, instead of just a cool ride.

By the way I love Satellites with 318s and Coornets with Slant 6s. It's a shame that so many became something else, and in a fraudulent way.
 
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there are times along the way where the DMV has inadvertently screwed up one or more numbers on the title. there are rare instances where the factory has even screwed up a number or letter on the VIN tag itself. there are some people that walk right out of the DMV without making sure the VIN matches the vehicle paperwork and the car goes on and is bought and sold until someone catches it. i , personally have had this experience. sometimes its an honest mistake. more times than not it is a half *** attempt to make a car something it is not. you really get into trouble when the metal has been replaced and there are no numbers left to validate it against the VIN. this is why a broadcast sheet and a fender tag can become the only things to really show what a car is, but in this day and age, it is way too easy to fake a high dollar muscle car especially when these cars change hands every other week. it is way too easy to go and buy a 6 figure hemi car that has been faked because it has changed hands so many times that the original info gets lost at sea through the DMV and through the owners. unfortunately, there is only so much info you can get and only so much that really validates an A12 RR or Bee. its way too easy to get a single VIN tag all by its lonesome and alter it , replicate the car and register it. some even go as far as a date correct block and trans, grind the pad smooth and restamp the VIN # sad but true. i dont play the numbers game anymore because some choose to break the moral laws of "numbers matching". i can see seeking out a new repopped fendertag for legitimate restoration purposes. BUT, too many use it as an avenue to fake their cars. all it takes is one *** to get caught and blow it wide open. i dont care how much anyone "thinks" they know about certian production numbers and options, only Ma Mopar REALLY knows how many left the production line with said options.... and whos to say these "experts" arent dishing out or creating their OWN muscle cars? things that make you go HMMMMMM
 
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62MAX said:
This is what happens when a fender tag question is asked on Moparts.



http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7308042&an=0&page=0#Post7308042
Click to expand...

Bahaha flame warriors. noobs beware if your not savoy you will get bonked on the head and kicked out the door lol

And I am not a big fan of UBB boards the format and layout are high schoolish at best vs the Vbulletin we use here. Much more sophisticated and refined. I guess that's why the best of the best reside and post here and not at moparts :)

For those of you lost with that last part, it refers to the message board software and site hosting format, if you notice some sites post pics as attachments vs. being able to embed the pic in the post, along with several other features that make this site much more enjoyable. Let's just say a more sophisticated site brings a higher level of user that's why we are here and not there ;)
 
bigmanjbmopar said:
I guess that's why the best of the best reside and post here and not at moparts :)
Click to expand...

It's sometimes difficult to determine on a Board the context or how something should be interpreted.

I enjoy FBBO and think it is well run. There are good posters here.

Moparts is still the place to go for experience, expertise and access to the 'heavy hitters' in the hobby.
 
62MAX said:
This is what happens when a fender tag question is asked on Moparts.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7308042&an=0&page=0#Post7308042
Click to expand...

I don't know if your post is meant to be positive or negative. Doesn't matter.

Let's be clear about this: that topic is what happens when the fender tag question comes from a cheater and liar. It's NOT because it was asked, it's because of the who and how.

That example at Moparts is a perfect one. The poster is a cheater. He's trying to cheat knowledgeable and helpful people. He lies. Then won't post the tag he wants help with. If it even exists. Then he disappears.

He got called out. And rather politely I might add. Offered help from several of the best people on Moparts, with unquestioned integrity, and then he dicks around. :jerk:

Morale: don't go into Moparts as a cheater and liar.

I side with the mob once again. :sideways tongue:
 
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