Fred is dead!

[Kern Dog]

Now that I've had a chance to cool off and think a little, I remember having a bit of an issue with Fred dipping the drivers'
front tire off into the ditch on my gravel road coming off the ridge prior to the drive into town today.
He did a "bonk" down onto what I thought was the LF suspension at that time.
He would not have been shut off until I arrived at the gas station some time later and that's when the trouble started...

No idea why I didn't think of that sooner. Betting when I get under there tomorrow one will relate to the other, eh?

I'm leaning toward this being unrelated.
The starter solenoid on the starter itself is essentially a lever that pushes the starter pinion gear into contact with the flywheel. The solenoid can fail.
I've had starters that will push out the pinion and not spin it, I've had them spin the pinion without it being pushed out too. An old trick is to tap the starter with a hammer, this may encourage the lever to move and engage the pinion. I'm surely using generic terminology here as I don't know the correct factory terms.
Do you even hear any sort of CLICK when you turn the key? I don't recall if the car is a manual or 727 but if manual, can you push and rock the car back and forth in gear a bit?
Recently a FBBO friend had a loose connection at his starter relay and the starter randomly engaged the flywheel while the engine was already running and it stayed engaged until he pulled over to pull the negative cable. I met up with him roadside and we changed the starter relay, all was well afterwards.
You did mention no dash lights but I don't understand. Do you mean that the instrument panel does not light up? No headlights, dome light, brake lights either?

 

[PROSTOCKTOM]

Um Fred taste good. LOL

Tom

 

[moparedtn]

It’s gotta be frustrating.

Given what's been going on here as of late, you've no idea how true that is...but yeah.

 

[RR Fan Dan]

I remember having a bit of an issue with Fred dipping the drivers' front tire off into the ditch on my gravel road

I hate it when my car drives itself into a ditch. You better get that fixed too.

 

[The Rebel]

Hopefully it's an easy fix so Fred can be out and about in no time.

 

[1967coronet]

Pretty much all is suggested.
The one thing I will add old friend
Is......
JACK STANDS !

 

[Tinker67]

Hey Ed,
I had this very same thing happen last year. It was the starter relay itself. (China thing) I hope it's that simple for you as well.
OH, and remember. The Lord won't put more on your plate than you can handle. Take care.

 

[Moms68]

I had a shorted out amp gage on a '67 Newport that caused the same issue. Apparently power runs through the gage. Jumped it out and bingo!

 

[68BabyBlue]

I had a battery post break or erode inside the case. I shut the car off, and it would not restart. I.called a friend to help me with jumper cables, but it still would do nothing. I was about 5 miles from home, so I had my friend drive me back to my garage, where I pulled the battery from another car. I installed it in my non-operative car, and it started right up. I checked the Specific Gravity of the bum battery, and it was fully charged. I could not get a spark out of it. What really hurt was that it was a $$$ reproduction battery. Last one of those I ever bought.

I had the exact same thing happen when I drove my Hemi GTX to my 50 year class reunion. Talk about bad timing, it quit after all the parts stores were closed. My friend who tried to jump start the car wasn't surprised when a new battery did the trick in the morning. He lives in the Washington DC metro area, and did find it amazing that the car sat outside overnight and wasn't stolen.

 

[Black_Sheep]

Are you getting battery voltage to the starter relay?

I would start there since bypassing the relay doesn’t make the starter crank.

I would also connect the negative lead on the voltmeter somewhere on the engine block to see if the ground cable is doing its job. Battery cables can look good but fail internally.

 

[Fran Blacker]

I'm of little help with electric but watching. Moms68 said amp gage, had a terminal melt on my 69 Dodge, no power.

 

[Don Frelier]

Your + Positive battery cable has a heavy wire going to the starter and a smaller maybe 10 AWG wire that goes to the heavier stud on the starter relay.
This stud has a fusible link which powers everything inside the car.
For some reason you've probably lost power to that stud. (It may show battery voltage but drop when any load is energized)
I suspect that portion of the battery cable has a defect.
If you can rig up a jumper from battery to that stud and everything works then you've found the problem.

Unfortunately if I were closer I'd gladly come and help get it sorted.

 

[Daves69]

FWIW, recently my Barracuda fusible went intermittent on a drive three blocks from home. The engine starts popping and back firing. Alternator gauge swinging back and forth charge discharge. Fortunately, it made it home. Shut it down, try to restart....nothing. Not even a click. Cleaned the BH connector and the FL wire "looks" fine............. same outcome.
Long story short, I stripped of the FL insulation expecting to find a visual open. Nope. But a slight bend on the wire produces the open. So, it appears it was in the 50+ year old crimp connector was the culprit for me.

 

[eldubb440]

Your + Positive battery cable has a heavy wire going to the starter and a smaller maybe 10 AWG wire that goes to the heavier stud on the starter relay.
This stud has a fusible link which powers everything inside the car.
For some reason you've probably lost power to that stud. (It may show battery voltage but drop when any load is energized)
I suspect that portion of the battery cable has a defect.
If you can rig up a jumper from battery to that stud and everything works then you've found the problem.

Unfortunately if I were closer I'd gladly come and help get it sorted.

View attachment 1897924

I recently opened up an older starter relay........ looked perfect on the outside; everything inside had been reduced to crumbs

 

[68BabyBlue]

I recently opened up an older starter relay........ looked perfect on the outside; everything inside had been reduced to crumbs

I posted in another thread, those relays made my life miserable back when I had to rely on them to start the Ford industrial six on the first bulk tankers I pulled. Exposed to the elements, they failed routinely.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Maybe Fred heard you were cutting back on FBBO and ix give you a warning.

 

[Davefinan]

Are you getting battery voltage to the starter relay?

I would start there since bypassing the relay doesn’t make the starter crank.

I would also connect the negative lead on the voltmeter somewhere on the engine block to see if the ground cable is doing its job. Battery cables can look good but fail internally.

Yes. I was thinking checking the ground cable connection at the engine also . Next swap a known good battery in it. The easy stuff first.

 

[Under Pressure]

I think Fred is as tough as you, he may get knocked down but comes back beating it just like his owner

 

[blue69runner]

Check all connections under dash. Just had my head light switch connection go bad. Nothing worked on the car. Replaced the start run switch and nothing. Good battery. So, under dash wiggled wire connectors and low and behold the head light switch connector made everything come on and car run. But it soon stopped. So, replacing the switch and checking the connection. Wish you luck. Also check bulkhead connector. Did have a bad ground connection one time it was at the fire wall.

 

[moparwacko]

Fred is not dead Ed.
He's like you, may need an occasional rebuild, but not willing to call it quits.
Electrical stuff is annoying, but perseverance wins. You'll figure it out.
If not, I'll be in Pigeon Forge next week.
Maybe the Mrs will let me escape for a day. It's only our anniversary, we've had lots of them.