Fuel cell project

[john.thompson068]

I have a 20 gallon aluminum fuel cell with a sending unit. It came with some blue foam inside. I had the cell installed in 2007. The tank had a crack in the pick up area between the two fittings. The shop drained out my full tank of gas, pulled out the foam, and welded the crack. They then put the foam back in, and then poured the gas back in.

Recently after the car was sitting in storage for two years, the car has developed a fuel pressure problem, which is causing me to have carburetor issues. The fuel pressure guage wasn't reading proper pressure so I checked the fuel filter and found a piece of foam in it plus a lot of foam bits and grit. That is the top picture.

After I cleaned the filter the car immediately began to have normal fuel pressure and ran perfect, for about 1/2 a mile. Then the same problem returned. So I looked at the filter again and found more gunk. That is the second picture.

 

[john.thompson068]

It appears that my foam is disintegrating so I decided to pull the foam out of the tank to have a look at it. I will flush out the tank and may replace the fuel filter since I couldn't get it 100% clean. I don't know why there are so many little bits of foam floating around in my tank. I don't plan on reusing this foam as it surely has little foam bits inside of it just waiting to float out and into my fuel filter. I am actually debating on whether or not to put foam back in at all.


Is there any real reason why I should have to use foam? I don't really want something like this to happen again.

Plus it takes up a lot of room for gas. It is no wonder it looks like my gas goes down so fast. When the foam was in the cell I had half a tank of gas. So the fuel level was at about the 5" deep mark. After taking the foam out, the tank was suddenly almost empty with the fuel at about the 2" deep mark. So with the foam in there my 20 gallon fuel cell effectively becomes a 10 gallon fuel cell. Whatever it is, I am losing a lot of space for gas in my cell.

In the first picture, all the little black specs you see are pieces of foam floating around in there. There must be a hundred little pieces of foam. The second picture shows a whole pile of foam bits down in the pick up area. The third picture is the foam that I pulled out of the tank and will be throwing away.

Thoughts please?

Next up will be pictures of how the fabrication shop rigged up my fuel line and vent. I will go ahead and finally fix these other problems now while I am at it.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

The foam keeps the gas from splashing and thrashing around in the tank along with possibly helping the shock impact if impacted in a car accident. I would just order new, quality foam inserts to replace your current set. The foam possibly could have started degrading if you left fuel in the tank, for an extended period of time. I have a 12G fuel cell that takes around 10-11 gallons of fuel, and the foam isn't supposed to take that kind of volume up in your tank (to the point where you lost 40-50% of your fuel capacity). It's good to see you found the culprit, without spending any more of your hard earned money and valuable time.

 

[john.thompson068]

Well, the shop rigged me up a fuel line and a vent tube which spews gas whenever the tank is close to full and any time I brake very hard. Notice how the cap on the other side is just a loose fitting plastic cap, and how the fuel line just flaps around in the wind. I never had time to mess with it before and now I have time but very little money.

Regardless, I will buy a 90* fitting for the fuel line. Then I can bend the aluminum ½” fuel line straight along the frame rail. That piece of black braided line is long enough to run along the back of the car and then forward along the frame rail. Then I can actually secure the fuel line with some rubber coated clamps I have left over.

I have a couple questions about the vent set up. My idea is to use a roll over valve. Can I reuse that piece of braided line and pass it through a grommet in the trunk pan next to the tank? I don’t want any more fuel to be spilling out of my car.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

You should be looping your vent line (twice), and using a roll-over-valve as well to be straight with NHRA regulations and for general safety. With the way you have it set up currently, you are going to be spewing fuel every time you have a full tank and take a sharp turn. I would place foam back in the tank, for safety reasons once again. I would NOT be visiting that shop again, it seems like they have no experience installing or running fuel cells. On a budget, I would just get some certified blue fuel hose (NHRA Approved, which summit racing sells) and do your loops with it. It is a much cheaper alternative. I also would run the largest vent line possible.

 

[Supershafts]

The vent line should be coming straight up till it encounters something or atleast 8" straight up and then loop down and have a one way valve as mentioned also, the one way valve should be before the loop.


As mentioned don't go back there, and move that fuel line along side the tank.... not across the bottom. . . thats just wrong.

 

[john.thompson068]

I need some recommendations then on which brand of fuel cell foam to go with. I looked at the ones on Summit. There is no way to tell which one is going to be better than the other. I read other posts on the Internet where people are saying there foam had lasted over ten years and still no problem. The foam that came in my Jegs fuel cell must have been some cheap stuff to go along with the cheaper price of the fuel cell.

I am still trying to find that blue fuel hose, although I haven't searched very hard yet. I'll probably try a little hard right now. My original plan was to get a piece of 1/2 aluminum tubing and flare the end. Then get a brass coupler to attach it to the end of the roll over valve. Bend some loops into it and run it down through a grommet. That's what you are supposed to do right?

 

[john.thompson068]

What do you think of this shopping list? The only thing that is not there is the fuel filter because I want to call Summit to see if I can purchase only the filter element that is inside of the filter housing. Foam is not there yet because I am not sure what is a good brand of foam and how much it will cost. I really should just clean out my tank and replace the filter and not spend any more money than that. But we will see. I also need to verify that I have 8 AN fittings.



Earl's Performance 100037ERL - Earl's Performance Aluminum Fuel Lines

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Fuel Line, Aluminum, Natural, 1/2 in. Diameter x 10 ft., Each
Part Number: EAR-100037ERL

Transaction

• $12.95
• $12.95
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Earl's Performance 809108ERL - Earl's Performance Swivel-Seal Hose Ends

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Fitting, Hose End, Swivel-Seal, 90 Degree, -8 AN Hose to Female -8 AN, Aluminum, Red/Blue, Each
Part Number: EAR-809108ERL

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• $23.95
• $23.95
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Earl's Performance 992908ERL - Earl's Performance AN Caps

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Fitting, Cap, -8 AN, Aluminum, Blue Anodized, Each
Part Number: EAR-992908ERL

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• $3.88
• $3.88
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Jaz 834-008-11 - Jaz Products Fuel Cell Tip Over Valves

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Tip Over Valve, Aluminum, Blue Anodized, Female -8 AN to Male -8 AN, Each
Part Number: JZP-834-008-11

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• $26.95
• $26.95
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Russell Performance 639220 - Russell Aluminum Fuel Line Adapters

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Fitting, -8 AN Female to 1/2 in. Tube, Aluminum, Red/Blue, Each
Part Number: RUS-639220

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• $12.95
• $12.95
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Part Subtotal $80.68

 

[john.thompson068]

The vent line should be coming straight up till it encounters something or atleast 8" straight up and then loop down and have a one way valve as mentioned also, the one way valve should be before the loop.


As mentioned don't go back there, and move that fuel line along side the tank.... not across the bottom. . . thats just wrong.

You mean loop like a circle or just a upside down U shape. I read somewhere on the Internet where people were saying not to put loops in the vent tube because fuel will only get trapped in there anyway which will block off the vent. I should probably check the archives. This discussion has probably already happened a dozen times here already. But this is all the work I am doing for right now.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

You mean loop like a circle or just a upside down U shape. I read somewhere on the Internet where people were saying not to put loops in the vent tube because fuel will only get trapped in there anyway which will block off the vent. I should probably check the archives. This discussion has probably already happened a dozen times here already. But this is all the work I am doing for right now.

"Tanks: When permitted by class regulations, fuel tanks located outside body and/or frame must be enclosed in a steel tube frame constructed of minimum 1 1/4-inch O.D. x .058 chromoly or .118 mild steel tubing. All fuel tanks must be isolated from the driver’s compartment by a firewall, completely sealed to prevent any fuel from entering the driver’s compartment. All fuel tanks must have a pressure cap and be vented outside of body. A positive-locking screw-on fuel tank cap is mandatory on all open-bodied cars. Insulated fuel tanks prohibited. When used, fuel cells must have a metal box protecting the part of the fuel cell that is outside of body lines or trunk floor, excluding hose connection area in rear. Nonmetallic fuel cells or tanks must be grounded to frame."

The loop setup is where your tank doesn't pressurize and spit fuel out the vent line. It's also for fuel vapors to settle in the line and not on the garage floor. Many people that do not run a double loop also have heavy gasoline vapor smells associated with their cell. I believe a hard line is tech guidelines I've read, but I am just running the NHRA blue Spec fuel hose for simplicity. I will get the link and post it as well once I get on my PC. I also built a sheetmetal firewall and filled the inner rear quarters with flame proof foam. Not necessary, but a smart precaution.

Here is the link, its just your standard twist lock hose: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-220783/

 

[john.thompson068]

Looks like I should run a filter for the vent tube. I have been searching the Internet again on the vent tube design topic, and saw this mentioned. Mostly just looking for pictures though.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Looks like I should run a filter for the vent tube. I have been searching the Internet again on the vent tube design topic, and saw this mentioned. Mostly just looking for pictures though.

Correct, if you do not run a filter then you could potentially have bugs and insects creeping up your vent line. Any type of screen will do, if your looking for the "cheapest" alternative. If not, a small lawn equipment filter could work. Just thinking outside the box for the budget minded.

 

[Supershafts]

You mean loop like a circle or just a upside down U shape. I read somewhere on the Internet where people were saying not to put loops in the vent tube because fuel will only get trapped in there anyway which will block off the vent. I should probably check the archives. This discussion has probably already happened a dozen times here already. But this is all the work I am doing for right now.

Add the roll over valve, then add another piece going up , make it loop at least 5" from the ROV, then go straight down, exit the body and run it straight to the back of the car.

Then i would add a 90 at the tank and run the AL line to the right and then up the side and to the front staying as far away from the exhaust as possible

 

[john.thompson068]

What about foam you guys. I need to get this order off by Thursday at the latest if I am going to be able to work on it this weekend. Otherwise I will just buy whatever foam I pick, which are about $15 a block.

 

[john.thompson068]

I can just go with this foam. It is resistant to all racing gas, alcohol, and additives. It is $30 dollars more than the cheaper foam. I have also added a filter to my list. I just wish I really had money for this stuff. Current total plus shipping and handling is $178.43.


Jaz FOAM1 - Jaz Products Fuel Cell Safety Foam Kits

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Fuel Cell, Safety Foam, 14 in. x 6 in. x 4 in., Each
Part Number: JZP-FOAM1

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• $19.95
• $79.80
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K&N 62-1330 - K&N Crankcase Vent Filters

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Valve Cover Breather, Crankcase Vent, Clamp-On, Round, Steel/Rubber, Chrome/Black, 1/2 in. Nipple, K&N Logo
Part Number: KNN-62-1330

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• $17.95
• $17.95
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[john.thompson068]

Look at this you guys. I can run this right off the cell and then hook the red fitting of that fuel line directly to the filter. All I have to verify is that the red fitting at the other end of the fuel line will thread onto the brass male piece on the end of my aluminum fuel line. Anyone know if that sounds possible? I won't check till tomorrow. If it does, I can save myself 20$ by eliminating the 90 degree piece and a fuel filter. This filter is more than adequate for my needs and worked fine for a long time.

large image

• $35.95

 

[john.thompson068]

Actually never mind. There would be no way to pinch off fuel flow to clean the filter.

 

[john.thompson068]

From Fuel Safe website:

What kind of additives can I run in a fuel cell?

Most fuel additives are ok to run in your fuel cell if they are not left in the cell for extended periods of time. If left in the cell
for a long period of time, the additives can separate from the fuel and attack the bladder. If you are going to use additives,
use them only when necessary and refill your cell with regular fuel before storing.



Maybe putting that bottle of Stabile in the tank before putting the car in storage is what ate up my foam?

 

[Sweet5ltr]

From Fuel Safe website:

What kind of additives can I run in a fuel cell?

Most fuel additives are ok to run in your fuel cell if they are not left in the cell for extended periods of time. If left in the cell
for a long period of time, the additives can separate from the fuel and attack the bladder. If you are going to use additives,
use them only when necessary and refill your cell with regular fuel before storing.



Maybe putting that bottle of Stabile in the tank before putting the car in storage is what ate up my foam?

Any foam will probably be fine from a reputable fuel cell company. Any foam would deteriorate over time, I would drain the tank prior to long term storage again.

 

[john.thompson068]

Summit Racing SUM-230110 - Summit Racing® Replacement Fuel Filter Elements