Hard Blok Engine block Filler

[moparcrazy]

Wondering anyone using this Product ? does it make your Engine run hotter and can you still drive it on the street ? how much horse power can a wedge block withstand when using this product, I'm not 100% convinced this is the way to go.

 

[LemonWedge]

We'll need more details on what you're trying to accomplish (hp goals). typically most only do a partial fill to further tie the bottom end together. When done properly, most motors don't run hotter water temps, but will be more susceptible to elevated oil heat because you're insulating most of the oil galleys away from water flow. Running an oil cooler is a good idea on filled motors.
Personally, before I went the block filler route, I'd look at aluminum caps with studs and a girdle. I'm not a pro builder, nor have I been to these power levels, but with studs, alum caps, a girdle and good machine work, I'd think good solid B or RB block should be safe into the 750 - 800 range. Hardblock aint gonna buy you much more than those things will, but it is another tool to use in a high-hp build. If you're talking about approaching 1000 hp, you'd best be looking at an aftermarket block.

My opinions only, which may or may not be worth the time it took you to read them. ;). There are others here that have more experience with filled motors. I'll be interested in their input as well.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

I'm no expert, but I don't think you can run a filled (or even half-filled) block on the street. I think that is a "track-only & turn the motor off to cool every 1/4 mile" type thing. The girdle & studs is a MUCH better option in my opinion for a street motor.

The "rule of thumb" I've heard is that a stock block will take 500hp-600hp. My "guess" is that Lemmon is about right that girdle/studs maybe up to 750hp or so. Do you need more than that? A blower/turbo?

 

[moparcrazy]

We'll need more details on what you're trying to accomplish (hp goals). typically most only do a partial fill to further tie the bottom end together. When done properly, most motors don't run hotter water temps, but will be more susceptible to elevated oil heat because you're insulating most of the oil galleys away from water flow. Running an oil cooler is a good idea on filled motors.
Personally, before I went the block filler route, I'd look at aluminum caps with studs and a girdle. I'm not a pro builder, nor have I been to these power levels, but with studs, alum caps, a girdle and good machine work, I'd think good solid B or RB block should be safe into the 750 - 800 range. Hardblock aint gonna buy you much more than those things will, but it is another tool to use in a high-hp build. If you're talking about approaching 1000 hp, you'd best be looking at an aftermarket block.

My opinions only, which may or may not be worth the time it took you to read them. ;). There are others here that have more experience with filled motors. I'll be interested in their input as well.

the goal is 700+ HP Naturally Aspirated, hard blok claims that it dry's just as hard as if it was cast iron, wont shrink, pull away or be affected by Antifreeze and street cars can use it if only filled 2" from the bottom, circle track cars use half fill with out heating issue's, but recommend running an oil cooler, hopping someone here has already done this before and can share some needed insight " thank you gentleman !!"

 

[1967coronet440]

the goal is 700+ HP Naturally Aspirated, hard blok claims that it dry's just as hard as if it was cast iron, wont shrink, pull away or be affected by Antifreeze and street cars can use it if only filled 2" from the bottom, circle track cars use half fill with out heating issue's, but recommend running an oil cooler, hopping someone here has already done this before and can share some needed insight " thank you gentleman !!"

700 can be had with alum caps/studs/girdle. That's how my victor headed 505" is set up.

 

[OK charger]

I used to know a guy at out local track many moons ago. He had hard blocked a 340 that was in his dudter drag car. He had to shut it off after every run to let it cool because it got hot in a hurry...In fact he would stage up quick to try and get the other guy to the line so he could go. In my opinion he ruined a perfectly good 340 doing that.

 

[moparcrazy]

700 can be had with alum caps/studs/girdle. That's how my victor headed 505" is set up.

Hello 1967coronet440 ! yup got all that covered, Girdle ECT, I'm building a 500CI 440 based wedge motor with Max Wedge heads & extensive porting also thinking 150-200 Nitrous shot, what kind of power are you making with that 505 ?!

 

[moparcrazy]

I used to know a guy at out local track many moons ago. He had hard blocked a 340 that was in his dudter drag car. He had to shut it off after every run to let it cool because it got hot in a hurry...In fact he would stage up quick to try and get the other guy to the line so he could go. In my opinion he ruined a perfectly good 340 doing that.

Back in the day things where deferent (personally maybe better ) lol, but I think today we have much info available to us car guys that just 20 years ago wasn't there, the more I read the better I feel about using it, its not a street friendly Engine with 16:1 Compression, but I'm street racing the **** out of this car and some track use so id like to see what others mite say about this product today, thank you OK charger.

 

[1967coronet440]

Hello 1967coronet440 ! yup got all that covered, Girdle ECT, I'm building a 500CI 440 based wedge motor with Max Wedge heads & extensive porting also thinking 150-200 Nitrous shot, what kind of power are you making with that 505 ?!

Motor isn't completely assembled yet but we're thinking 700/700ish

 

[LemonWedge]

.

 

[Budnicks]

Not sure this will help any

IMO on a regularly driven, mostly dedicated street engine
occasional track use, the block filler typically used/filled
up-to the bottom of the freeze plugs will have some
"overheating issues", like said above oil temps will go up
you could do a nice fan assisted/engine oil cooler also,
but with a 16:1 compression ratio "unless you're running Methanol
it will be overheating anyway"...

I've done the Block filler on a bunch of race dedicated blocks,
org. we use to do an epoxy cement/topper {Sakrete IIRC}or
concrete crack repair mix/additive, {not that brand you said}
back in the day, it was nonexpanding cement only about
mix up a 1 gal {IIRC ?}, added like a quart or 2 on each side,
it was about a little way "over 1/2 way up to the freeze plug hole" IIRC,
mixed more than we needed poured it in with a funnel
in the center freeze plug holes on either side,
measured amounts so it was the same on both sides...
I used a hammer drill, like a Milwaukee 1/2" drill motor
with no bit in it, pushed chuck up against the side of the block
to fibrate it, on each side while pouring,
so it would get 99% {?} of the bubbles &
most all of the air out, fill all the little crevices better...

We learned these tricks from an ol' engine builder,
when I was pretty young, sprint-car guys & drag racers...

It does help stabilize the block, we'd do it after the block
was hot tanked, thoroughly cleaned inside & out, so the epoxy
would stick properly to the inside of the block & cylinder walls
always before any machine work is done too...

I haven't use any dedicated brand Hard Blok Engine Filler

I had a few BBC's {I know} that were partially filled driving around
on the street, with race engines, with full roller etc. alum rods,
with electric water pumps & fans, big-ish alum rad.'s etc. etc. etc.,
that never real had big heating issues, everyone said I couldn't do it...
You could do a commute with it or cruise the strip stop & go
for an hr etc.

but;
I also ran less compression on them combo's than your 16:1
most were in the 13:1 arena, 110+ race gas or Methanol or a blend...

good luck

 

[Mike Gaines]

Hello 1967coronet440 ! yup got all that covered, Girdle ECT, I'm building a 500CI 440 based wedge motor with Max Wedge heads & extensive porting also thinking 150-200 Nitrous shot, what kind of power are you making with that 505 ?!

Pal...The build you are talking about is going to make close to 700 which is about the limit of a stock block even with a girdle and steel billet main caps (which is what I have on my block) PLUS if you add a 200 shot of nitrous that will be 900 HP and IMO you will blow the hell out of that block. If you want to do it right the only option is to buy a World Block (which are almost extinct) or a Muscle Motors "Block" or an INDY Aluminum block. Spend the money now and never, ever look back.... PS: I think you can buy an INDY "short block" from INDY I think they will supply it with a World Block,,,call them and find out (let us know what they say).

 

[moparcrazy]

Not sure this will help any

IMO on a regularly driven, mostly dedicated street engine
occasional track use, the block filler typically used/filled
up-to the bottom of the freeze plugs will have some
"overheating issues", like said above oil temps will go up
you could do a nice fan assisted/engine oil cooler also,
but with a 16:1 compression ratio "unless you're running Methanol
it will be overheating anyway"...

I've done the Block filler on a bunch of race dedicated blocks,
org. we use to do an epoxy cement/topper {Sakrete IIRC}or
concrete crack repair mix/additive, {not that brand you said}
back in the day, it was nonexpanding cement only about
mix up a 1 gal {IIRC ?}, added like a quart or 2 on each side,
it was about a little way "over 1/2 way up to the freeze plug hole" IIRC,
mixed more than we needed poured it in with a funnel
in the center freeze plug holes on either side,
measured amounts so it was the same on both sides...
I used a hammer drill, like a Milwaukee 1/2" drill motor
with no bit in it, pushed chuck up against the side of the block
to fibrate it, on each side while pouring,
so it would get 99% {?} of the bubbles &
most all of the air out, fill all the little crevices better...

We learned these tricks from an ol' engine builder,
when I was pretty young, sprint-car guys & drag racers...

It does help stabilize the block, we'd do it after the block
was hot tanked, thoroughly cleaned inside & out, so the epoxy
would stick properly to the inside of the block & cylinder walls
always before any machine work is done too...

I haven't use any dedicated brand Hard Blok Engine Filler

I had a few BBC's {I know} that were partially filled driving around
on the street, with race engines, with full roller etc. alum rods,
with electric water pumps & fans, big-ish alum rad.'s etc. etc. etc.,
that never real had big heating issues, everyone said I couldn't do it...
You could do a commute with it or cruise the strip stop & go
for an hr etc.

but;
I also ran less compression on them combo's than your 16:1
most were in the 13:1 arena, 110+ race gas or Methanol or a blend...

good luck

Hello budnicks ! thank you for the info, the more I research the better I feel about filling the block I'm only gonna fill it half way and i should be ok with the drive to the occasional corner car show, not 100% sure on what fuel ill be running maybe 112 q16 mix ?

 

[bobtile]

We'll see what happens hopefully in a week or so.
Stock block, stock stroke 440 with bcr aluminum caps.
Thinking maybe around 750 hp.

 

[moparcrazy]

We'll see what happens hopefully in a week or so.
Stock block, stock stroke 440 with bcr aluminum caps.
Thinking maybe around 750 hp.

View attachment 441788

bobtile what head\ cam combo are you running ?

 

[moparcrazy]

Pal...The build you are talking about is going to make close to 700 which is about the limit of a stock block even with a girdle and steel billet main caps (which is what I have on my block) PLUS if you add a 200 shot of nitrous that will be 900 HP and IMO you will blow the hell out of that block. If you want to do it right the only option is to buy a World Block (which are almost extinct) or a Muscle Motors "Block" or an INDY Aluminum block. Spend the money now and never, ever look back.... PS: I think you can buy an INDY "short block" from INDY I think they will supply it with a World Block,,,call them and find out (let us know what they say).

Mike what's happening bud !! I know your right regarding stepping up to the after market blocks just not in cards as of now, I also have a 540 that I'm wanting to put together and thinking that would be the best option for that future build, trying to get though this one first Lol, Justin with Big Booty Judy is running 950HP on stock block, not filled that Erick Jones built for him 14 years ago and as you know still running hard !

 

[66Satellite47]

I have very limited experience (only 1 weekend), but my 1/2 filled block seems to get up to 170* and stay there. Stock 440 block, Indy aluminum heads.

 

[moparcrazy]

I have very limited experience (only 1 weekend), but my 1/2 filled block seems to get up to 170* and stay there. Stock 440 block, Indy aluminum heads.

would you mind sharing your Engine build, also what radiator are you running, where able to drive it back to the pits or where you towed, thanks !

 

[66Satellite47]

would you mind sharing your Engine build, also what radiator are you running, where able to drive it back to the pits or where you towed, thanks !

My combo is a stock 440 block 1/2 filled, Indy EZ-1 head, 12.4 CR. I drive it around the pits. The return road at BIR is EXTREMELY long , no heat up issues. The temp stays really fine, at least as good as my 500" 10.5 CR motor. Aluminum radiator (not sure what brand, works great), stock Chrysler clutch fan.

 

[Coffee&Cars]

My 2 Cents. U definitely need the alum caps or billet caps and a girdle to reduce cap walk. Hard blocking a block was never intended for the street. The purpose of hard blocking is to stabilize the cylinder bores. Not to stabilize the bottom end. Although it is an added benefit. U may get away with filling only the bottom 2 inches without over heating issues. Just because it worked for someone else doesn't mean it will work for you. U won't really know until you try it. My race block is half filled, studs, alum caped and girdled, external single oil pickup. This combo is good for around 750hp with longevity. More HP, less longevity. If your looking for big cubes on the street you need a full water jacket. Which spells aftermarket block. Or just more rebuilds to keep it happy.