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If I recall it made best power on the dyno at 34 degrees. Does your computer allow you to add vacuum advance as well?
Hawk-Rod: The "Tune-Up"
- Thread starter HawkRod
- Start date
Yes, I can add vacuum advance (along with engine load threshold before it starts), idle trim timing control, enrichment fuel for acceleration, cold start and startup, air fuel ratios for idle, cruise and WOT, plus other stuff.
Thanks for the reminder. I will look at the dyno sheets and see if there are any trinkets of information there to glean as I tune it up more. I want to check the push rods just in case before I drive it again. Hopefully there is no damage, but better safe than sorry! So it will take me couple of days before I can tune it further. I will post details as I get them.
Hawk
By the way, with respect to lessons learned here by me:
I turned the engine over several times to check clearance with the valve covers and everything seemed fine. BUT these are hydraulic lifters and after a long period of time and turning the engine by hand the lifters were likely compressed. So this made everything seem OK until I started it and then the lifters got pumped up.
Live and learn. Hopefully the rest of you can learn from my mistakes!
Hawk
I turned the engine over several times to check clearance with the valve covers and everything seemed fine. BUT these are hydraulic lifters and after a long period of time and turning the engine by hand the lifters were likely compressed. So this made everything seem OK until I started it and then the lifters got pumped up.
Live and learn. Hopefully the rest of you can learn from my mistakes!
Hawk
OK, so to make up for my mistake of not checking the valve cover clearance carefully enough, I got to do extra work to check everything! Here is what I did:
I pulled off the valve covers and then the rocker arm shaft and checked rocker tip and casting for any stress cracks, flat spots, etc.
No problems found!
I checked each push rod for straightness using my engine block straight edge (SUPER straight). Of course, I couldn't check the mushroomed edge - that had to hang off the end. I also did the old fashioned roll test to make sure they rolled across my stainless steel work surface smoothly and evenly. Each one was tested one at a time and put back in the same spot it came out of.
No problems found!
I checked the push rods on both sides to look for flat spots, damage, etc. This included running my finger over the ball end to feel for imperfections. (Picture here looks a little bit funny but I think that was the oil residue on it after I rubbed my finger on it.)
No damage found!
I then lubed up each push rod (both ends) and stuck it back in the hole.
I then reinstalled the rocker arm shaft. Note a trick I saw that uses an old oil dipstick to hold the push rods in place. By the way, when both removing and tightening these I made sure each bolt/nut attaching the shaft is loosened or tightened a little bit at a time. This avoids a big load on any part of the shaft as the springs begin compressing on certain cylinders.
After all that, I set the preload again. I did this in the following way (this came from Hughes Racing): (Note - I spaced these out but I guess the site removed the spaces - not sure how to fix...)
Cylinder @ TDC Adjust Intake Adjust Exhaust
1 2 8
8 1 4
4 8 3
3 4 6
6 3 5
5 6 7
7 5 2
2 7 1
My technique, as instructed by my father in law, was to loosen the adjusting nut until the push rod is loose enough that you can feel it move up and down. The slowly tighten the adjusting nut while wiggling the push rod up and down until it just stops moving up and down. Then add 1/2 turn preload. Tighten the lock nut and move to the next.
Good news is I could find no damage to the valve train of any kind and the preload has been reset.
Next time I will run the car more and do some more tuning. Making progress!
Hawk
I pulled off the valve covers and then the rocker arm shaft and checked rocker tip and casting for any stress cracks, flat spots, etc.
No problems found!
I checked each push rod for straightness using my engine block straight edge (SUPER straight). Of course, I couldn't check the mushroomed edge - that had to hang off the end. I also did the old fashioned roll test to make sure they rolled across my stainless steel work surface smoothly and evenly. Each one was tested one at a time and put back in the same spot it came out of.
No problems found!
I checked the push rods on both sides to look for flat spots, damage, etc. This included running my finger over the ball end to feel for imperfections. (Picture here looks a little bit funny but I think that was the oil residue on it after I rubbed my finger on it.)
No damage found!
I then lubed up each push rod (both ends) and stuck it back in the hole.
I then reinstalled the rocker arm shaft. Note a trick I saw that uses an old oil dipstick to hold the push rods in place. By the way, when both removing and tightening these I made sure each bolt/nut attaching the shaft is loosened or tightened a little bit at a time. This avoids a big load on any part of the shaft as the springs begin compressing on certain cylinders.
After all that, I set the preload again. I did this in the following way (this came from Hughes Racing): (Note - I spaced these out but I guess the site removed the spaces - not sure how to fix...)
Cylinder @ TDC Adjust Intake Adjust Exhaust
1 2 8
8 1 4
4 8 3
3 4 6
6 3 5
5 6 7
7 5 2
2 7 1
My technique, as instructed by my father in law, was to loosen the adjusting nut until the push rod is loose enough that you can feel it move up and down. The slowly tighten the adjusting nut while wiggling the push rod up and down until it just stops moving up and down. Then add 1/2 turn preload. Tighten the lock nut and move to the next.
Good news is I could find no damage to the valve train of any kind and the preload has been reset.
Next time I will run the car more and do some more tuning. Making progress!
Hawk
Last edited:
New Valve Covers
So my new 1970 reproduction AMD valve covers came in. I have to say they are pretty nice and very close too originals - definitely acceptable. My biggest gripe with them are the spot welds were done too strongly and pock marked the outside of the covers - they definitely would need some work there to cover that up.
OK, so great. These would obviously have the same clearance issues as my old valve covers. The baffle depth on the original and AMD covers measured exactly the same, so they are quite accurate in that respect as well. So we measured and began immediately modifying. We started with the driver's side cover to see how it went:
First we drilled out the spot welds and removed the baffle:
Then we bent the baffle into a partial V shape, where the V is measured to be the point of contact of the rocker adjusting nuts.
After some cleanup, shaping, etc. I plug welded the holes with copper on the inside so I would not need to grind anything inside the valve cover. For additional clearance beyond the V shape, we also welded it back with one side of the baffle lower than it was originally - you can see this in the first picture below.
The biggest issue here is my crappy welding skills - I am still a novice welder. Two problems I had: (a) I clamped down a bit too hard and created a few small dents in the metal, and (b) I blew holes in some of the metal even though I was at a low setting on the welder - I'm not sure why.
Bottom line is I think this will functionally work well to fit stock looking valve covers back on the engine. I just need to improve my welding skills to up the quality, but I guess practice makes perfect...
So my new 1970 reproduction AMD valve covers came in. I have to say they are pretty nice and very close too originals - definitely acceptable. My biggest gripe with them are the spot welds were done too strongly and pock marked the outside of the covers - they definitely would need some work there to cover that up.
OK, so great. These would obviously have the same clearance issues as my old valve covers. The baffle depth on the original and AMD covers measured exactly the same, so they are quite accurate in that respect as well. So we measured and began immediately modifying. We started with the driver's side cover to see how it went:
First we drilled out the spot welds and removed the baffle:
Then we bent the baffle into a partial V shape, where the V is measured to be the point of contact of the rocker adjusting nuts.
After some cleanup, shaping, etc. I plug welded the holes with copper on the inside so I would not need to grind anything inside the valve cover. For additional clearance beyond the V shape, we also welded it back with one side of the baffle lower than it was originally - you can see this in the first picture below.
The biggest issue here is my crappy welding skills - I am still a novice welder. Two problems I had: (a) I clamped down a bit too hard and created a few small dents in the metal, and (b) I blew holes in some of the metal even though I was at a low setting on the welder - I'm not sure why.
Bottom line is I think this will functionally work well to fit stock looking valve covers back on the engine. I just need to improve my welding skills to up the quality, but I guess practice makes perfect...
funknut
Well-Known Member
You did a great job as far as I can tell!
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Hawk, that should work nicely, and a far more elegant solution than I used. I found these pictures of the dimples I made in my factory valve cover baffles with a 3/8 extension. That and double gaskets solved the problem for me, so it doesn't take much.
Sorry for the delay in updating the thread. This is a story of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...
The Good:
I have driven the car about 250 miles, both on small streets and on the highway; I have used the air conditioning system as well. The car runs beautifully in all cases. It has amazing power and torque, and I haven't even gone close to full throttle to break the transmission in properly. Speaking of which, the A-855 transmission shifts nicely and I love the ratios compared to my old overdrive built into a A-833. I love the whole combo!
The Bad:
The original builder, as well as the owner who sold me the engine, reported that the rear main seal was leaking. When my father-in-law and I looked at it, we felt that it could have been leaking between the oil pan and block, not the rear main seal. So we gambled and didn't replace it. I lost.
The rear main seal is leaking significantly. Crap.
The Ugly:
I want this car to have everything work exactly as it should. Oiling the bottom of my car is not OK, so out came the drive-train today. I also decided that since I have it all out, I will tweak the camshaft just a bit to get a little more vacuum and manners at idle. This is a street car after all, and I have felt already that it has tons of power. I am OK if I lose 50 horsepower doing that.
What is ugly is trying to do all this and have it back and running before Carlisle - it will be a challenge since I am also retiring and have a few other things going on between then!
Here are a few pictures dropping the K-member. This time, I decided to drop it on to my welding table. This way, I didn't have to crawl around like a worm trying to loosen and remove the final bolts. It worked great!
Below is a view from the back. The K-member is on the welding table (with 4 car skates to move it around), and the transmission is on a regular transmission jack.
Here is the setup from the front of the car and after we pulled the whole assembly forward.
We simply unbolted the bellhousing and pulled the tranny straight back, and then lifted the engine and stuck it in a transportation cradle. Monday after father's day I will bring it to my father-in-law's shop and we will replace the rear main seal and change the cam. Then time to throw it all back into the car!
The Good:
I have driven the car about 250 miles, both on small streets and on the highway; I have used the air conditioning system as well. The car runs beautifully in all cases. It has amazing power and torque, and I haven't even gone close to full throttle to break the transmission in properly. Speaking of which, the A-855 transmission shifts nicely and I love the ratios compared to my old overdrive built into a A-833. I love the whole combo!
The Bad:
The original builder, as well as the owner who sold me the engine, reported that the rear main seal was leaking. When my father-in-law and I looked at it, we felt that it could have been leaking between the oil pan and block, not the rear main seal. So we gambled and didn't replace it. I lost.
The rear main seal is leaking significantly. Crap.
The Ugly:
I want this car to have everything work exactly as it should. Oiling the bottom of my car is not OK, so out came the drive-train today. I also decided that since I have it all out, I will tweak the camshaft just a bit to get a little more vacuum and manners at idle. This is a street car after all, and I have felt already that it has tons of power. I am OK if I lose 50 horsepower doing that.
What is ugly is trying to do all this and have it back and running before Carlisle - it will be a challenge since I am also retiring and have a few other things going on between then!
Here are a few pictures dropping the K-member. This time, I decided to drop it on to my welding table. This way, I didn't have to crawl around like a worm trying to loosen and remove the final bolts. It worked great!
Below is a view from the back. The K-member is on the welding table (with 4 car skates to move it around), and the transmission is on a regular transmission jack.
Here is the setup from the front of the car and after we pulled the whole assembly forward.
We simply unbolted the bellhousing and pulled the tranny straight back, and then lifted the engine and stuck it in a transportation cradle. Monday after father's day I will bring it to my father-in-law's shop and we will replace the rear main seal and change the cam. Then time to throw it all back into the car!
Machmeter1
Well-Known Member
Hey Hawk, at least there is something Good in that story and you managed already a lot in just one day.
It seems like all the other actors of that engine story are experiencing something Bad and Ugly too...
One is still missing his car and the other one is fighting electrical issues...nobody is driving yet.
I am positive there will be a "Happy End"
for everybody.
Cheers Wolfgang
It seems like all the other actors of that engine story are experiencing something Bad and Ugly too...
One is still missing his car and the other one is fighting electrical issues...nobody is driving yet
.I am positive there will be a "Happy End"
for everybody.Cheers Wolfgang
Thanks Wolfgang. I agree.Hey Hawk, at least there is something Good in that story and you managed already a lot in just one day.
It seems like all the other actors of that engine story are experiencing something Bad and Ugly too...
One is still missing his car and the other one is fighting electrical issues...nobody is driving yet
I am positive there will be a "Happy End"
Cheers Wolfgang
These are not daily drivers so I am not struggling to get around. I enjoy this kind of work, and quite frankly, I'm now getting quite good at engine removal! I'll get this issue resolved and then enjoy driving it. When another issue comes up, I'll address that too. Just part of owning an old classic car!
Rusty 72
Well-Known Member
I just read your 2015 cross country thread and this one just now and WOW! Looks like great times for sure! Can't wait to follow along on the next journey.
Nice job! Thanks for sharing.
Nice job! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Rusty!
Yes, that 2015 trip was such an epic journey that we are doing another one - this time both ways over two months. It was scheduled for September and October of this year, but I am not sure things will be back to normal enough to do it. It might have to wait now until next year. I am still going to prepare as if it will happen, but we will have to see...
Either way, I'll take you all along next time too!!
Hawk
Sorry I have been slow to post updates. Here are a couple of quick updates:
Cheers!
Hawk
- First, I am now officially retired. My last day at work was July 3rd. Work was crazy busy before I left as I was working hard to transfer all key knowledge, files, projects, etc.
- Work pressures kept me from doing much on the car, so I wasn't really able to make much progress until after that. So in the last few days, I finished working on the car, including the rear main seal, new camshaft, and complete reassembly of the car. I finally finished that last night and took it for a cruise. It seems to work great and no leaks so far!
This means I am driving it to Carlisle tomorrow! - Performance: So I replaced the camshaft with a milder cam that will give me better manners at idle and overall low RPM driveability. The car feels like it has just as much if not more low end torque than it had before, although it does feel slightly less powerful. The engine before was like a caged animal ready to pounce (it was super cool, just not what I need in that car). It now feels much smoother and better for long distance driving. It is a custom ground cam and I will provide the specs after Carlisle - to much tonight to still get ready!
Cheers!
Hawk
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Just finished this thread Hawk. Great work, fantastic documenting, and commentary!
So my whole plan to drive across country in September 2020 was spoiled by the pandemic. I have also been busy with a number of other things. My parents have needed a lot of help, and I also help my father-in-law at his speed shop 2 days a week.
So an update:
I pulled the engine and transmission again tonight. The engine had what could be piston slap. Although it ran great and with lots of power, I didn't like the deep noise it had, and I want to pull it all apart to check all clearances and be sure it is solid. I have the time and I don't want anything bad to happen to it since it was built with a lot of expensive parts by a PO. I will throw my original 383 back in the car so it will be drivable, and that will take the pressure off to tear the engine apart quickly (I still need to finish my stroker 340 build and get my old 73 Road Runner back on the road).
The good news about all this is I am getting damn good at pulling it out!!!
So an update:
I pulled the engine and transmission again tonight. The engine had what could be piston slap. Although it ran great and with lots of power, I didn't like the deep noise it had, and I want to pull it all apart to check all clearances and be sure it is solid. I have the time and I don't want anything bad to happen to it since it was built with a lot of expensive parts by a PO. I will throw my original 383 back in the car so it will be drivable, and that will take the pressure off to tear the engine apart quickly (I still need to finish my stroker 340 build and get my old 73 Road Runner back on the road).
The good news about all this is I am getting damn good at pulling it out!!!
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It could be my imagination but it seems like you like taking the engine out of the car.
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It could be my imagination but it seems like you like taking the engine out of the car.
he does
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A fast motion video may be in order
Remember - I'm betting old. I'm not sure I work in fast motion any more!!
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