Hot start problems with a Power Wagon

[Kern Dog]

Hey there,
I am a member of the truck forum but this question can pertain to cars as well. My 1975 440/4 speed Power Wagon has a poor performance and hesitation problem at certain times. Idling in traffic in about any weather, it changes from running fine to stumbling, sputtering and sometimes it stalls and does not want to restart. I first noticed it in the Spring when I was making routine trips to the county dump. Idling in the line it would start to act up. I thought it was starting to overheat despite the 40 year old guages reading in the middle of the C and H range. I put in a different radiator from a great running 1974 truck I parted out. I thought I had it fixed. Some time later, it happened again. I suspected fuel percolation from the ThermoQuad. I have a Performer intake with dual pattern so I swapped on a Holley 600. It runs better at all times, especially when cold. The Holley also allows easier starts after sitting for weeks.
The problem of hesitation and stalling continues though. The last time it happened, I looked down the carb. Nothing obvious there, the squirters shot fuel. I tried Ether/starting fluid but it didn't help. This got me thinking that is might not be fuel related. I seem to recall another thread somewhere saying that a bad coil can cause this.
I just swapped the coil with a new one but I haven't driven it.
Can anyone shed any light on this? The problem has happened in warm, hot and even cool weather so I don't think it is a matter of fuel percolation.

 

[Jeremiah]

I'd buy the coil or magnetic distributor pickup theory. I'd also shine a quick light under the dash and make sure the back of the ignition switch isn't melted. I have seen bad electrical connection cause strange problem once the engine was up to operating temperature.

 

[747mopar]

Hmmmm, sounds like you've eliminated fuel.... I'd suspect ignition too but not totally rule out the fuel. I'd try putting a fuel pressure gauge where you can read it, put a timing light on it and make sure your timing is staying steady, check the vacuum advance to make sure it's not hanging up and working properly, check your plug wires and give that coil a try. I've had problems like that but it was usually heat related fuel issues?

 

[Grabinov911]

Oh I've head of that before. There's no way to fix it. I recommend you sell it to me before you waste any more time or money! LOL...

 

[watermelon]

maybe fuel filter?


where is the truck forum?


good luck

 

[Kern Dog]

maybe fuel filter?


where is the truck forum?


good luck

There is an E body, a C body, an FMJ body forum AND a truck forum associated with FABO and this one. I can see asking questions there pertaining to specific truck issues, but a hot start problem happens to cars alot too.

 

[furryfrog]

I would not suprise me if it was the coil. Could be other things of course but a coil is easy enough to swap out. If starting fluid does not do anything, especially with dry plugs, having a look at the ignition system is a good plan.

I have not had a coil go bad on any old school engines, but I have had quite a few go out on more modern coil over plug setups. Symptoms of runs fine for a while, then starts missing when hot, cool down a bit then fine again. I would have to drive for a while, till it misses, then pull over and pop injector plugs off one at a time to find out which cylinder was missing. No codes would show, (just cat overheat) car was a 90 nissan r32 gtr. The bad coils would test out to spec as well when off the car. I went through 4 coils in 2 years, and they all went the same way, ended up carrying a spare or two in the trunk.

 

[Kern Dog]

What annoys me the most is that it has happened in traffic once or twice but I was lucky enough to get it going quickly. The other times it has happened in line at the county dump. I just hate to be the guy that holds up a line. It really pisses people off!

I like the idea of a fuel pressure guage. The carb is a Holley 600 with a single feed. A guage wouldn't be too difficult. Also, someone suggested checking the wiring. Great idea. The wires to the coil are looking cooked. After doing some wiring upgrades on my 70 Charger, the truck is next in line for the ammeter bypass and MAD electrical changes. I should also solder in new leads to the coil. The suggestion on the pickup in the distributor confuse me a bit but then again, many things electrical are confusing! I had an intermittent NO start in the Charger for years. It only would occur once in every 25-30 starts but it would act like a bad ballast resistor where the engine acted as if tried to fire as I released the key from cranking. THAT turned out to be the reluctor wheel. The roll pins fell out and the wheel was free to move around to whatever position it wanted. It was probably in between points when it was hard to start.
Anyhow.....
With the way this truck sits outdoors every day and night, replacing a few "seasoned" wires is a smart move whether it solves this current problem or not.
I'm still open to any suggestions though....Thanks!

 

[747mopar]

Man is that a sharp truck, love it! I'm with you on the annoyance factor but to me it's more of an embarrassment than anything else. I'm going to assume the pickup suggestion is meaning checking the gap to the reluctor wheel? I've seen them pretty far out of wack and it only takes a few minutes to check.

 

[Kern Dog]

I had the truck to the dump the other day. NO, I was NOT disposing of any tires....
The engine popped a few times but never stalled or was that hard to start. Maybe the cooler weather was to credit for that, who knows. When time allows, I'll look deeper into it and report back.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I had this exact same problem with my '68 Satellite when it had the 360 in it with an Edelbrock 600 carb, which is also notorious for boiling fuel. Based on your improvement with the Holley carb, I'd tend to say it's heat related, possibly causing issues with both fuel and electrical.

Mine turned out to be several things, which included:

fuel getting too hot in carb: added phenolic carb spacer (wood spacer is good too, but not metal), wrapped cheapo non-coated headers to cut down heat, wrapped fuel lines in engine bay

Chrome box ECU and stock oil filled coil were cooked from too much heat: Replaced both
Replaced ballast, but not sure if I needed to.
Replaced fuel filter to rule it out (old or dirty fuel or rusted fuel tank can contaminate the fuel and cause issues like this too with the fuel pickup and lines in general if you let the truck sit often for long periods with fuel in it)
Make sure the starter is not getting too much heat soak either - if so, the symptoms will be you'll hear a clicking or lockup and spinning starter until it cools off.

Hope this helps. This is not a fun issue to chase down. I'm all about a methodical approach, but if everything is old and crusty under the hood, might be a good idea for peace of mind to spend $200 and at least replace the items mentioned above and at least you know those items will be good for many more miles.

- - - Updated - - -

Love the look of that truck by the way! Looking forward to seeing your 500 at Spring Fling *** and hopefully the autocross on Thursday.

 

[Kern Dog]

Hope this helps. This is not a fun issue to chase down. I'm all about a methodical approach, but if everything is old and crusty under the hood, might be a good idea for peace of mind to spend $200 and at least replace the items mentioned above and at least you know those items will be good for many more miles.

GREAt points. The truck has sat outside its entire life. 41 years of use. It needs some help!

 

[ckessel]

I've been having starting/running issues on my 65 for about a month now. Will be just pulling away from somewhere while its not quite warmed up, then craps out, Crank and crank, nada. Check connections to coil and ballast, vroom. Then when its been running and I shut it off for a bit, doesn't want to light sometimes. I know it doesn't like the fuel thats being sold, which contributes to boiling over, and the old car electrical issues are showing up. I learned on my e body from years ago, with a hard start issue, that at each connection in the circuit it would drop a little current. By the time it got to where it needed to be, the voltage was sometimes low enough to not fire the ignition. For sure clean and solder as many connections as you can. When the engine was out of the e body for compartment painting, I unwrapped the harnesses, pulled the connector housings off, cleaned and soldered the connections, re-wrapped the harness. It helped out tremendously. The 65 is going to get re-wired when I get a chance to start working on the car. Just can't get there yet. For the fuel boiling, maybe block off the exhaust crossover in the manifold and/or put a heat shield between the car and manifold. I'm going to try the shield first on mine.

 

[Coronet 500]

Electrical connections if loose will create resistance and heat this can tighten the connection or loosen it, even unseen wire inside a good looking insulated coating. Adding underhood heat and outdoor ambient temp fluctuations can affect this condition and drive you CRAZY!

On our truck I rewired the ignition circuit only with new wire and connectors and the wet weather problems went away. Later other issues arose which we dealt with one at a time. It ended up a hodge podge of wire colour but neat and reliable.

 

[Kern Dog]

I think that I may have found the problem. The fuel line from the pump to the carb has a serious kink in it! I bent the line myself 3 years ago when I replaced the line. I must have been drunk! (Not really)

 

[5.7 hemi]

Sure...........blame on it on the adult beverages. LOL!

 

[Kern Dog]

I bought another fuel line to use. I just need to properly shape it and swap it in.