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Meanwhile, up here on the ridge, all is quiet.... 
I don't want to go to work tomorrow.
- Thread starter Kern Dog
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@Kern Dog you could try matching your personality to a state.
Here are my results, yours may differ:
https://time.com/7612/americas-mood-map-an-interactive-guide-to-the-united-states-of-attitude/ recommended New Mexico for me.
https://time.com/7612/americas-mood-map-an-interactive-guide-to-the-united-states-of-attitude/ recommended Maine for me.
https://brainfall.com/quizzes/which-u-s-state-should-you-live-in/result/4g25p2/ recommended Alaska for me.
So, yeah, you did the right thing by asking for opinions from FBBO members.
Here are my results, yours may differ
:https://time.com/7612/americas-mood-map-an-interactive-guide-to-the-united-states-of-attitude/ recommended New Mexico for me.
https://time.com/7612/americas-mood-map-an-interactive-guide-to-the-united-states-of-attitude/ recommended Maine for me.
https://brainfall.com/quizzes/which-u-s-state-should-you-live-in/result/4g25p2/ recommended Alaska for me.
So, yeah, you did the right thing by asking for opinions from FBBO members.
themechanic
Oklahoma is OK
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Oklahoma meets your needs
themechanic
Oklahoma is OK
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All you Californians should meet up and convoy to the Sooner State.
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Meanwhile, up here on the ridge, all is quiet....
That's what I'm longing for, up on a quite ridge down south.
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I know some really good folks from OK.
I just don't care much for those spinny storm thingies y'all get so many of over there....
or apparently ice storms?
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Oh, don't get me wrong - there's small town politics, rednecks doing things that will sometimes not
suit civil society and all that....
but nobody bothers anyone else or certainly comes onto your property to do so without proper
invitation and/or announcement. That'd be a good way to get ventilated.
Cost of living here is ridiculously low, too. So is real estate, properly bought.
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I still love building houses. I wish that the Union had some housing contracts.
Slap Stick
Well-Known Member
But unions don't build houses.
Construction companies do.
Cojohnso1
Well-Known Member
Labor builds houses. Not companies or unions.
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Cheap, non union contractors have driven down the wages for residential construction. The Union contractors cannot compete when JUST our benefit package is the same as the average wage the non union guys get. Add in our higher average pay scale and our bids are often double that of a non union outfit.
I don't know what happened first...Did the Latino crowd drive down the wage OR did the wage drop so far that only the Latinos will do the work?
We had residential work until the housing crash. Afterwards, the General contractors decided that the union wages were too much and went with half priced Non union companies. Sure, the quality of the product suffered but they just throw a few good Carpenters on near the end of each house frame and they fix the obvious mistakes. Trust this statement: A sneaky Framer can hide mistakes that an inspector cannot see. The building may look structurally sound but be a ticking time bomb if an earthquake ever hits.
I don't know what happened first...Did the Latino crowd drive down the wage OR did the wage drop so far that only the Latinos will do the work?
We had residential work until the housing crash. Afterwards, the General contractors decided that the union wages were too much and went with half priced Non union companies. Sure, the quality of the product suffered but they just throw a few good Carpenters on near the end of each house frame and they fix the obvious mistakes. Trust this statement: A sneaky Framer can hide mistakes that an inspector cannot see. The building may look structurally sound but be a ticking time bomb if an earthquake ever hits.
You know, I have mixed feelings about this. Over the years, I think unions in many cases have driven costs up too high, most likely to justify their dues. Sometimes it's worth it but not always. When you have someone making $30+ benefits a hour to hold a sign that says Stop and Slow, its hard to justify.. That said, I don't advocate getting rid of unions, but I think unions might be better off reorganizing how they do things. I remember the whole battle here with Hostess foods (think twinkes) and their union. The union wouldn't budge on salary demands and the company went BK and reopened as non union, costing all those union jobs.
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It will sound stupid to some but I have actually been in favor of wage reorganization. I told my employer that I would be willing to take a pay cut if it meant that we could be more competitive in our bids. My thinking was that if he knew that his employees would not scatter and abandon him for it, maybe he could work with the Union to enact some changes. That never went anywhere.
It isn't as if I'm a bleeding heart that would suffer in the name of the greater good. My motives are primarily selfish here...I absolutely
L O V E residential work. It moves fast. I miss that "juice" of start it up, get it done, move on to the next one.
In defense of the union:
Most Non union construction companies that I know of offer zero benefits other than the hourly wage.
I get a damn good medical plan, dental, pension, annuity and an annual vacation fund. Non union workers do get the benefits of the labor laws in regards to 8 hour, 5 day workweeks and OASH requirements but what about when they need medical care? What about saving for retirement? What if their wife gets pregnant? We all know how expensive that medical care can be.
There is an image that many people get when they think of union workers....We are thought of as lazy, entitled, overpaid and slow,
Yeah, in some cases, that is true. Firing an employee isn't simple sometimes. That was originally a benefit to working Union jobs....It was a form of protection from an irrational or unreasonable employer. Of course, the idea got distorted and changed into protection for the biggest idiots.
In construction though, at least from the small slice of it that I have seen, the worthless and lazy get weeded out as soon as possible.
It isn't as if I'm a bleeding heart that would suffer in the name of the greater good. My motives are primarily selfish here...I absolutely
L O V E residential work. It moves fast. I miss that "juice" of start it up, get it done, move on to the next one.
In defense of the union:
Most Non union construction companies that I know of offer zero benefits other than the hourly wage.
I get a damn good medical plan, dental, pension, annuity and an annual vacation fund. Non union workers do get the benefits of the labor laws in regards to 8 hour, 5 day workweeks and OASH requirements but what about when they need medical care? What about saving for retirement? What if their wife gets pregnant? We all know how expensive that medical care can be.
There is an image that many people get when they think of union workers....We are thought of as lazy, entitled, overpaid and slow,
Yeah, in some cases, that is true. Firing an employee isn't simple sometimes. That was originally a benefit to working Union jobs....It was a form of protection from an irrational or unreasonable employer. Of course, the idea got distorted and changed into protection for the biggest idiots.
In construction though, at least from the small slice of it that I have seen, the worthless and lazy get weeded out as soon as possible.
and many of the things originally accomplished by and the original reason for unions unions are now regulated by federal law anyway. (overtime, safe working practices, workmans comp, etc)
Being in Chicago - we are a union town. Which is great. But as I said earlier, often times the unions get out of control and power driven. I remember one time at McCormick place (the big convention center here) where I had to setup a booth and was told, I could NOT plug in an extension cord and power strip, I had to call the electrical union guy to do it (and be billed for the labor). We have lost big conventions because of things like this.
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Uhhh, yeah.....That part of the union has never been an issue with me but I have heard of it.
The union officials are quick to say that the 40 hour week, overtime pay and benefits are a direct result from Union negotiations and that even Non Union employees have benefitted from Unions. They say that they fought to get these improved conditions and eventually, their competitors adopted some of them to attract workers.
I do not know if it is true. I was a young guy when I joined in 1986. I even voted the way that they "encouraged" us to vote.
The advantage that the Union claims to offer is that Participating Contractors have a number of skilled workers ready to go and if they need more, the Union hall is only a call away. They have made efforts to improve training to apprentices as well as Journeymen. I considered taking a metal stud framing class once.
Not everyone joins the Carpenters Union and goes through the apprenticeship training. Many just pay a fee and start out as a Journeyman making full scale. This is fine if you are experienced but is disastrous if you are an idiot. People like this get fired/laid off pretty quickly.
School projects, funded by Federal money, require a high amount of apprenticeship school graduates on the project. In other words, they have ratios they have to meet, something like 30% of the employees have to be graduates. The ratios go UP every year in the effort to further improve the amount of skilled and trained workers. This weeds out the idiots, immigrants that only know how to sweep or carry lumber and the dude that can only do ONE thing well.
The union officials are quick to say that the 40 hour week, overtime pay and benefits are a direct result from Union negotiations and that even Non Union employees have benefitted from Unions. They say that they fought to get these improved conditions and eventually, their competitors adopted some of them to attract workers.
I do not know if it is true. I was a young guy when I joined in 1986. I even voted the way that they "encouraged" us to vote.
The advantage that the Union claims to offer is that Participating Contractors have a number of skilled workers ready to go and if they need more, the Union hall is only a call away. They have made efforts to improve training to apprentices as well as Journeymen. I considered taking a metal stud framing class once.
Not everyone joins the Carpenters Union and goes through the apprenticeship training. Many just pay a fee and start out as a Journeyman making full scale. This is fine if you are experienced but is disastrous if you are an idiot. People like this get fired/laid off pretty quickly.
School projects, funded by Federal money, require a high amount of apprenticeship school graduates on the project. In other words, they have ratios they have to meet, something like 30% of the employees have to be graduates. The ratios go UP every year in the effort to further improve the amount of skilled and trained workers. This weeds out the idiots, immigrants that only know how to sweep or carry lumber and the dude that can only do ONE thing well.
bm02tj
Well-Known Member
Walking on thin ice
Employees need protecting but just the same employers need protecting from unions protecting bad staff
If the union kicked the bad apples out life would be better
If unions looked at all things ie profit for employer that makes an investment and takes the risk
Employees need protecting but just the same employers need protecting from unions protecting bad staff
If the union kicked the bad apples out life would be better
If unions looked at all things ie profit for employer that makes an investment and takes the risk
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My line of work is different, of course - but I've been on both sides of unions in it
over the decades. I've carried a card and not - and given my choice, I've always chosen not to.
A lot of that old school union crap still exists in the ol' 669 and it always rubbed me wrong,
even when I was in it (and paying dearly each week for the privilege).
Yes, unions in the past have benefitted us all - most federal labor laws originated because of them.
We're talking ancient past, though.
As unions have struggled to remain relevant, they've tentacled themselves into leftwing politicians,
federal facilities, anything else they can think of in order to remain (at least in some parts of the
country) to be mandated - because let's face it, they cost a ton more than non-union labor and
GC's who use them cannot compete on a level playing field against non-union contractors.
Price wins bids out here in the free world, more than anything else after all.
Tennessee is a "right to work" state. As such, anyone can work about anywhere (short of federal
facilities like Oak Ridge, for example - again, mandated to be union).
There are a few unions here, but most of them survive on said government contracts (which means
taxpayer-funded, remember). They don't play out here with the rest of us; I hand their reps their
asses weekly when presented the chance to beat them. It's easy to do, after all.
Free markets, capitalism, competitive bids, all that yammer.
Kumbaya.
Bottom line - if you want work out here in the free air, your odds increase greatly at non-union contractors.
over the decades. I've carried a card and not - and given my choice, I've always chosen not to.
A lot of that old school union crap still exists in the ol' 669 and it always rubbed me wrong,
even when I was in it (and paying dearly each week for the privilege).
Yes, unions in the past have benefitted us all - most federal labor laws originated because of them.
We're talking ancient past, though.
As unions have struggled to remain relevant, they've tentacled themselves into leftwing politicians,
federal facilities, anything else they can think of in order to remain (at least in some parts of the
country) to be mandated - because let's face it, they cost a ton more than non-union labor and
GC's who use them cannot compete on a level playing field against non-union contractors.
Price wins bids out here in the free world, more than anything else after all.
Tennessee is a "right to work" state. As such, anyone can work about anywhere (short of federal
facilities like Oak Ridge, for example - again, mandated to be union).
There are a few unions here, but most of them survive on said government contracts (which means
taxpayer-funded, remember). They don't play out here with the rest of us; I hand their reps their
asses weekly when presented the chance to beat them. It's easy to do, after all.
Free markets, capitalism, competitive bids, all that yammer.
Kumbaya.
Bottom line - if you want work out here in the free air, your odds increase greatly at non-union contractors.
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