I put a 4bbl on my engine and now it hates me

[Herbykw]

Back in January 2000 a friend of mine passed away and left me his car, a 75 Cordoba with a 360, 2 barrel carb, auto trans, completely stock. This car was my daily driver until I joined the military late in 2001. The car sat until about 2005. I was able to get it running again, but not very well. I had friends start it occasionally while I was gone. I wanted to fix it up, make a nice weekend driver out of it. I changed the oil, water, flushed everything, new plugs, wire, dist cap, rotor. It would run but I never really drove it. I put a Weiand intake, and a Holley 4 barrel carb on it. It ran, but would die occasionally. That was about 4 years ago. I am now getting more aggressive with fixing it up. Now I can not get it to run hardly at all.

Long story short
-Car sat, would start, idle and die, then wouldn't start very easily at all
-no spark on 1st cylinder, new plug, wires, dist cap, rotor
-Starter relay went bad, replaced
-started solenoid went bad, new starter and solenoid
-starter relay broke(defective), replaced
-will not turn over, started does not engage. sounds like a click is coming from the starter, like the solenoid engaging, but nothing else. I have checked all the wires many times, and can not find anything

I now have a timing light, and gauge set to check cylinder compression, but can not get the car to start or stay running long enough to check anything.

Any thoughts? Suggestions? I am keeping the car, promised my friend before he passed.


Stock

Now

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

Does the starter make multiple clicking sounds or just one click then nothing? Make sure you have a hot battery, the motor should turn over. If you can get it started but have to work the gas to keep it running, try turning up the idle enough to keep it running to try some tests, You could have a vacuum leak causing the engine to not idle. There are lots of vac. lines on that motor. If you can keep it running, put your hands over the carb and see if the motor continues to run or wants to stall. If you have a vac. leak the motor will suck air from somewhere besides the carb. If the motor ran OK before the intake and 4 barrel, I would start backtracking and see were you get. Good luck, I'm sure others will offer their help....

 

[Herbykw]

It clicks one time, then nothing. Yes, when it does start if i keep it at a higher rpm it stays running. I have been looking everywhere for my Haynes manual for this car, I think i just need to buy a new one. I was still Active duty when i started working on the car, I know it ran well enough to drive about 25-30 feet to get to the garage where i swapped the intake and carb.

 

[coloradodave]

Back in January 2000 a friend of mine passed away and left me his car, a 75 Cordoba with a 360, 2 barrel carb, auto trans, completely stock. This car was my daily driver until I joined the military late in 2001. The car sat until about 2005. I was able to get it running again, but not very well. I had friends start it occasionally while I was gone. I wanted to fix it up, make a nice weekend driver out of it. I changed the oil, water, flushed everything, new plugs, wire, dist cap, rotor. It would run but I never really drove it. I put a Weiand intake, and a Holley 4 barrel carb on it. It ran, but would die occasionally. That was about 4 years ago. I am now getting more aggressive with fixing it up. Now I can not get it to run hardly at all.

Long story short
-Car sat, would start, idle and die, then wouldn't start very easily at all
-no spark on 1st cylinder, new plug, wires, dist cap, rotor
-Starter relay went bad, replaced
-started solenoid went bad, new starter and solenoid
-starter relay broke(defective), replaced
-will not turn over, started does not engage. sounds like a click is coming from the starter, like the solenoid engaging, but nothing else. I have checked all the wires many times, and can not find anything

I now have a timing light, and gauge set to check cylinder compression, but can not get the car to start or stay running long enough to check anything.

Any thoughts? Suggestions? I am keeping the car, promised my friend before he passed.


Stock

Now

If I understand you, it's been 4 years since the carb swap? Did you add Sta-bil or some other additive to the gas before letting it sit? I would guess that the gas has gelled in a lot of the tiny orifices in the carb thus not alllowing it to idle or run at low speed.
Next thing I would check is all the major grounds. Pull the ground cable loose from the battery and engine or frame and clean the surfaces with sandpaper. Do the same for the engine to firewall ground.
If this doesn't improve the cranking, jump the two major terminals on the starter relay and write back with results. It's always the simple things that get you when a car sits for a long time.
Good luck.

 

[Revhendo]

Interesting thread title....
Does it crank slow, when it's not going "click"? Pull the plugs and see how it cranks. I agree with checking the carb for crap and sediment in it. Could even be a stuck needle/seat assembly and it might just be flooding out. Disconnect all vacuum lines from the carb and intake and plug them off. Still have problems? Check for a vacuum leak between the carb and the intake and/or the intake and the heads.

 

[Herbykw]

If I understand you, it's been 4 years since the carb swap? Did you add Sta-bil or some other additive to the gas before letting it sit? I would guess that the gas has gelled in a lot of the tiny orifices in the carb thus not alllowing it to idle or run at low speed.
Next thing I would check is all the major grounds. Pull the ground cable loose from the battery and engine or frame and clean the surfaces with sandpaper. Do the same for the engine to firewall ground.
If this doesn't improve the cranking, jump the two major terminals on the starter relay and write back with results. It's always the simple things that get you when a car sits for a long time.
Good luck.

Sadley no, I did not use any fuel stabilizers. THe battery post are clean, and battery has been on a chrger/maintainer. Which of the 4 relay wires do I jump? I know jumping the starter itself works.

Interesting thread title....
Does it crank slow, when it's not going "click"? Pull the plugs and see how it cranks. I agree with checking the carb for crap and sediment in it. Could even be a stuck needle/seat assembly and it might just be flooding out. Disconnect all vacuum lines from the carb and intake and plug them off. Still have problems? Check for a vacuum leak between the carb and the intake and/or the intake and the heads.

Figured you would like the title. No it doesn't crank at all right now. It only clicks once every time i turn the key. I will try to clean out the carb if i can get the damn thing to start.

 

[Revhendo]

Does it turn over by hand? You might want to pull the starter and bench test it.

 

[WP29440SE]

you may have a series of problems. here are some possibilities:

#1 fuel system
dirty, stale gas, rusty fuel tank and/or fuel line, fuel filter, weak fuel pump. i would also pull the carb off, clean inspect/rebuild or put a known good carb on it. Vacuum leaks. you could be sucking air from an old rubber line between the tank and the hard line or between the hard line and the fuel pump.

#2 ignition system
corroded or dirty cap, rotor, broken/burnt plug wires, plugs, reluctor dirty or gap out of wack, check at .008 with a non-magnetic feeler gauge. this also includes the coil, weak/fried ballast resistor and EI box which will cause a weak or no-spark condition . check all grounds... firing order 18436572 in clockwise rotation

#3 charging system
dirty/corroded battery cables/clamps ,weak battery, bad ground, bad starter , starter relay must see a good ground/ Neutral Safety Switch, bad starter connections , Voltage regulator, alternator. bulkhead connectors could be dirty and/or corroded REMEMBER, the EI box, the VR and the starter relay MUST have a good body ground to work properly. the engine block to body ground to NEG side of the battery all MUST have a fluid ground

just because parts are "new" doesnt necessarily mean they are good. you need to test the system with an ohm/volt meter. in some cases the ignition switch can cause issues, but i would rule that out first by testing start power to the BALLAST and if you can "jump start" it at the relay with the switch in the "RUN" postion, chances are good the switch is OK and the relay is junk or is not seeing a ground or the NSS is not doing its job, you can also unplug the NSS connector at the harness, and bypass the NSS with a piece of wire at the harness connector. you need the get the fuel system in good working order or it may never start even if you get power to everything.

when i bought my 77 charger, it had sat for 8 years, the gas was brown and smelled like turpentine. the tank and lines were full of rust. not to mention the ignition system had deteriorated. also worthy of mentioning, these cars have a plug in fusable link between the main harness and the charging harness that may be corroded

guys...please chime in if i missed anything

 

[Herbykw]

you may have a series of problems. here are some possibilities:

#1 fuel system
dirty, stale gas, rusty fuel tank and/or fuel line, fuel filter, weak fuel pump. i would also pull the carb off, clean inspect/rebuild or put a known good carb on it. Vacuum leaks. you could be sucking air from an old rubber line between the tank and the hard line or between the hard line and the fuel pump.

#2 ignition system
corroded or dirty cap, rotor, broken/burnt plug wires, plugs, reluctor dirty or gap out of wack, check at .008 with a non-magnetic feeler gauge. this also includes the coil, weak/fried ballast resistor and EI box which will cause a weak or no-spark condition . check all grounds... firing order 18436572 in clockwise rotation

#3 charging system
dirty/corroded battery cables/clamps ,weak battery, bad ground, bad starter , starter relay must see a good ground/ Neutral Safety Switch, bad starter connections , Voltage regulator, alternator. bulkhead connectors could be dirty and/or corroded REMEMBER, the EI box, the VR and the starter relay MUST have a good body ground to work properly. the engine block to body ground to NEG side of the battery all MUST have a fluid ground

just because parts are "new" doesnt necessarily mean they are good. you need to test the system with an ohm/volt meter. in some cases the ignition switch can cause issues, but i would rule that out first by testing start power to the BALLAST and if you can "jump start" it at the relay with the switch in the "RUN" postion, chances are good the switch is OK and the relay is junk or is not seeing a ground or the NSS is not doing its job, you can also unplug the NSS connector at the harness, and bypass the NSS with a piece of wire at the harness connector. you need the get the fuel system in good working order or it may never start even if you get power to everything.

when i bought my 77 charger, it had sat for 8 years, the gas was brown and smelled like turpentine. the tank and lines were full of rust. not to mention the ignition system had deteriorated. also worthy of mentioning, these cars have a plug in fusable link between the main harness and the charging harness that may be corroded

guys...please chime in if i missed anything

1) I will work on it, when i get the engine to turn over, all those are possiblities

2) Cap, rotor, plugs and wires are all new, gap on plugs is good. I dont know what the Ballast resistor or EI box is. I cant find my manual and only checked a couple auto parts stores, not in stock.

3) Battery terminals are clean, battery has been on a charger/maintainer, and is only a year or two old. Starter is new, connections were cleaned, new starter relay. Is there a way to check a neutral saftey sensor? I will recheck the grounds.

I will try to get out and test some of this stuff today.

 

[Herbykw]

I found my haynes manual. I used a MM and checked the ECU and starter relay. They seem to check out. I arced the started with a screwdriver and it clicked once. I assumed the starter was bad and started to pull it out, before I disconnected the wires I hit the ignition and the starter engaged and spun. I booted it back in and it clicked once. It might be something in the steering column. I got frustrated and slammed the shifter into park, and turned the key, the engine turned over, didn't start. Couldn't get it to do it again. I have to wiggle the shifter around to get it to even click when I turn the key. If the car is not in park or neutral it will not even click. I think that means the neutral safety sensor is working. Checked the wires, they looked good.

 

[Ron 73]

bad connection somewhere, real possibly in your column, it almost the way you explain it makes you think starter could be binding up, try to move the engine backward a little, then try again push down on the fan belt as you try to turn engine in opposite direction, just a tad, you might even here a click which would be solenoid gear moving back from the fly wheel just a quick suggestion good luck

 

[Bruzilla]

Never, ever, trust a battery!!! I spent two weeks troubleshooting a no crank problem on one of my Crown Vics and kept ignoring the battery even though I had all the classic symptoms of a bad battery because it was an Optimus red top that was all of six months old. After giving up on everything else I finally swapped out the battery and the car fired right up. Turned out the battery had shorted out for some reason even though it was dang near new.

 

[WP29440SE]

I found my haynes manual. I used a MM and checked the ECU and starter relay. They seem to check out. I arced the started with a screwdriver and it clicked once. I assumed the starter was bad and started to pull it out, before I disconnected the wires I hit the ignition and the starter engaged and spun. I booted it back in and it clicked once. It might be something in the steering column. I got frustrated and slammed the shifter into park, and turned the key, the engine turned over, didn't start. Couldn't get it to do it again. I have to wiggle the shifter around to get it to even click when I turn the key. If the car is not in park or neutral it will not even click. I think that means the neutral safety sensor is working. Checked the wires, they looked good.

dont get frustrated , after sitting, these old girls loose there connections due to conditions such as dirt , humidity, rust etc etc. imagine what i went through after my charger sat out in the elements after 8 years. after checking/cleaning and/or replacing parts, after 2, 4 hour days, i had it running and drove it home, and i will tell you it took about 3 days to stop smoking LOL

what i would do right now is to bypass the NSS, as i stated above. if you are playing with the shifter and getting a hit and miss clicking, the NSS / shifter linkage is most likely out of adjustment. unplug the NSS from the harness and bypass it with a piece of wire temporarily just to rule that out. just follow the NSS plug wiring from the trans up behind the engine at the firewall, unplug it from the harness, and jump it. remember,now the starter will engage in any gear, so make sure it is in park or neutral. once you get it to crank at the starter, you need to check for spark at the coil by cranking the motor over with the coil wire unplugged from the distributor and positioned 1/4 inch away from fuel and to a good ground such as a bare metal spot on the firewall. the key must be in the "start/run" position when doing this. if you are not getting spark, chances are good the ballast or the ECU does not have a good ground or is bad, ALSO, clean the coil connections. GROUNDS, GROUNDS GROUNDS, i cannot say this enough times, after time, rust and dirt can get between the ECU,VR,start relay and contaminate the connection. once you determine you have a good orange spark, next is the getting good clean gas to the carburetor.

the clicking you hear is a bad connection and/or starter solenoid, bad starter connection, bad ground some where, weak battery. usually, the starter is not getting the total 12-13 battery voltage to the starter. even 1 1/2 volt down on battery voltage may not be enough to engage the starter or spin the engine, especially if the engine hasnt been started in awhile. keep us posted

just to reiterate, the ECU box and the Voltage Regulator use their respective boxes to the Body, and bolts that fasten them to the body as their grounds

if you need pics for any of this , please let me know, i have tons of pics AND i have a COMPLETE set of Chrysler Factory Service Manuals for all 75-79 chrysler/dodge/plymouth passenger cars

 

[coloradodave]

Wow, Super 77SC. Did you give the poor guy enough things to check? lol. I don't think you missed anything............accept I wouldn't recommend putting the coil wire 1/4" away from fuel. lol. I know, there's a smart *** in every crowd. I agree with you, especially about grounds. You can't tell if a ground connection is good by looking at it. You need to remove the terminal ends from the engine and firewall grounds and brighten up the connections with emory cloth or sandpaper.
I agree with the Bruzilla also: Jump your car from another running car and see if the starter turns. Do this after cleaning the cables at both ends.
Herbykw: You can try jumping the large top terminal on the starter relay to the terminal directly below it with a screw driver, which bypasses the relay and puts voltage through directly to the starter. Keep in mind that low voltage (bad ground, shorted battery, etc.) will turn a starter with NO load, such as when it's removed from the engine, but won't once a load is put on it.
Keep us up to date.

 

[Revhendo]

I missed this.....
Does the engine turn over by hand?
Does the engine turn over by hand?
Does the engine turn over by hand?

 

[WP29440SE]

I missed this.....
Does the engine turn over by hand?
Does the engine turn over by hand?
Does the engine turn over by hand?

i sure hope so !! that would be a bad thing

 

[WP29440SE]

Wow, Super 77SC. Did you give the poor guy enough things to check? lol. I don't think you missed anything............accept I wouldn't recommend putting the coil wire 1/4" away from fuel. lol. .

lol , you dont know how many times ive considered this !!

are you in, from , or around Colorado Dave?

 

[Herbykw]

Wow, Super 77SC. Did you give the poor guy enough things to check? lol. I don't think you missed anything............

Thats ok, I like it! increases my chances of getting this thing up and running.

try again push down on the fan belt as you try to turn engine in opposite direction,

Unless i miss understood this, if I try to move the fan by hand while i try to start it, I will loose fingers.

Never, ever, trust a battery!!!

I did this the other day, when it died in my driveway, about 100 feet from my garage SAme thing, I get one click.

I missed this.....
Does the engine turn over by hand?
Does the engine turn over by hand?
Does the engine turn over by hand?

I have not tried this yet.


About two days ago i was able to get it started, and drive it down my driveway. It ran ok, and then sputtered and died. Before i moved it it was idling just fine, I just had to keep the RPM a little bit higher then normal or it would die. At the end of my driveway, i went to turn around and it died, while trying to start it again(seemed like a carb problem), the battery died. We jumped it and only got the single click.


I want to thank everyone for their help with this, there is a LOT of great info here and A lot for me to check. I work tonight and tomorrow, so it will be a couple days before i can get out and check more. Thank you again, EVERYONE!

 

[coloradodave]

lol , you dont know how many times ive considered this !!

are you in, from , or around Colorado Dave?

Lived in Dolores, CO for 8 years then moved back to CA. Where are you?

 

[MAGNUM GT XS22L9R]

Unless i miss understood this, if I try to move the fan by hand while i try to start it, I will loose fingers.

What's a couple of fingers as long as you can get it running???!!! LOL :eusa_think: