I'm getting close to switching to a roller cam in the big block!

[PRHeads]

Which high dollar Hyd roller lifters that fit a BBM, that aren’t the link bar style, do you suggest?

 

[70ChargerRT]

Which high dollar Hyd roller lifters that fit a BBM, that aren’t the link bar style, do you

Wasn’t meaning the link bar itself.
My motors trashed. Cylinder wall number two scratched up pretty good. That was the first one we scoped. I didn’t even look at it anymore. I’ll get pics when I get the engine tore part maybe next week. I also seen another video On YouTube besides the one you posted another HR link bar broke just like mine did.

 

[PRHeads]

Sorry you’re having to deal with it.

My comment was more to set you on the hunt for BBM HR options…….. which I believe will show all choices are the link bar style.

Got a link for the other video?

 

[70ChargerRT]

Sorry you’re having to deal with it.

My comment was more to set you on the hunt for BBM HR options…….. which I believe will show all choices are the link bar style.

Got a link for the other video?

 

[Hemirunner]

As discussed in multiple other cam threads, everyone blames the parts but never look for the root cause. Valve spring pressure and rate, coil bind, pushrod length, size, material and wall thickness, bore clearance and oiling among other things all factor into the equation. I’ve yet to experience a lifter failure that was purely a part failure.

 

[70ChargerRT]

As discussed in multiple other cam threads, everyone blames the parts but never look for the root cause. Valve spring pressure and rate, coil bind, pushrod length, size, material and wall thickness, bore clearance and oiling among other things all factor into the equation. I’ve yet to experience a lifter failure that was purely a part failure.

In what world do you ever think the engine builder would ever take responsibility for that? Lol. Either way I’ll take full responsibility for what happened to my engine. I hired the guy, I bought the parts. I’ll try to do better next time.

 

[Hemirunner]

In what world do you ever think the engine builder would ever take responsibility for that? Lol. Either way I’ll take full responsibility for what happened to my engine. I hired the guy, I bought the parts. I’ll try to do better next time.

It’s unfortunate when things like this happen for sure. Lots of finger pointing and uncertainty. All we can do is learn and move on.

 

[Kern Dog]

The delay continues.
I'm still tinkering with a pair of 360 engine builds here...mine is a stock stroke .040 bore job, Rich's is a stroked 5.9 that will be 408 cubes.
In between the wrenching, I'm still thinking about this roller camshaft swap.
The LA series made it easy...The fore/aft movement of the cam is limited by the thrust plate:

The plate keeps the cam from moving forward, the cam sprocket keeps it from moving rearward. Big blocks don't have a thrust plate.

The timing set that I bought does have a Torrington bearing on the back side that will rest against here:

That controls rearward movement. A "Cam button" attached to the cam sprocket controls forward movement. The timing cover does need some manner of reinforcement to keep the cam from moving forward.
I've got a few questions though.
* On a big block, does the rotation of the distributor drive gear push the cam forward or to the back?
* If the roller wheels of the lifters are making adequate contact with the lobes, why is the fore/aft movement of the cam supposed to be limited to as little a .010 of an inch? That sure isn't much movement.
* I've been told to be sure to use high zinc oil. I thought that the main advantage of the high zinc was to protect flat tappet cams and lifters. With a roller setup, what advantage does the zinc provide?
This swap will be my first retrofit roller. I'll be doing things that I have never done before because this is not a simple thing.
I have to change valvesprings with the heads ON. New valve stem seals too.
This will involve using compressed air into each cylinder to keep the valves seated. I'll have to install shims under the springs to get the installed height right. 16 times I will be doing this.
I'll be adjusting the rocker arms to include preload instead of lash. I haven't read the instructions with the lifters but in other applications I've read, the preload guideline is as much as .090". This will be a learning experience for sure.
.

 

[Kern Dog]

Throw those link bar type lifters in the trash and get some high dollar ones before it’s too late.

Your picture, edited slightly...

The link looks different that the lifters I have:

How else are retrofit roller lifters retained so they don't spin?

 

[Kern Dog]

The vertical video routine makes watching stuff like that just crappy. The guy could have rotated the phone 90 degrees and got a better recording of the damage.

 

[70ChargerRT]

I hope you have good luck with those. Heres the ones i went with, Johnsons. The price hurt lol. I bought these off of a guy named Bob Madara aka Marine Kinetics.

 

[CoronetDarter]

On my 5.9 build, the hyd roller cam is from Hughes Engines. Their cam install instructions recommend Joe Gibbs Driven break-in oil which is high-ZDDP, low-detergent. After break-in a synthetic oil can be used. Seems counter-intuitive, but it can't hurt the engine break-in so I ordered 6 qts from Summit.

 

[Kern Dog]

I’m not against using the high zinc stuff, I just wonder why it is still recommended given the drastic reduction in friction you see with a roller lifter setup.

 

[not so famous bob]

I’m not against using the high zinc stuff, I just wonder why it is still recommended given the drastic reduction in friction you see with a roller lifter setup.

I did not use any special break in oil with my rb block roller cam set up .
I welded a s. steel washer to the inside of the timing cover where it would take the impact of the cam button ,
One could also a rig shim of sorts between the water pump and cover to further re in force the cover after getting the required clearance set , I have mine at .008 if I remember correctly , its been about 12-14 yrs ago when I built the engine ---------jfyi

 

[70ChargerRT]

I did not use any special break in oil with my rb block roller cam set up .
I welded a s. steel washer to the inside of the timing cover where it would take the impact of the cam button ,
One could also a rig shim of sorts between the water pump and cover to further re in force the cover after getting the required clearance set , I have mine at .008 if I remember correctly , its been about 12-14 yrs ago when I built the engine ---------jfyi

Did you use a nylon or a 2 piece roller set up? My Mancini water pump basically sets against my timing cover. My builder says he still likes using the Nylon vs the 2 piece roller. I don’t know how he had the end play set but it all looked great.

 

[Jeremiah]

They make cast iron roller cams? How do they hold up to the steel roller lifters? It would def solve the distributor drive gear issue.

Non-billet core rollers are carburized

 

[not so famous bob]

Did you use a nylon or a 2 piece roller set up? My Mancini water pump basically sets against my timing cover. My builder says he still likes using the Nylon vs the 2 piece roller. I don’t know how he had the end play set but it all looked great.

I used the nylon button , couldn't get the right
clearance with the mech. button , still have it in the tool box...
Have checked a couple of times over the yrs. , button is holding up perfectly ...

 

[Kern Dog]

Since I've never installed a roller cam in an engine that wasn't built with one, I still wonder about how all this will work.
The concept of the back side of the camshaft sprocket riding against the block seems weird even with a Torrington bearing. I haven't looked into how the cam button is modified for the required fore/aft limits of the camshaft. The limit that I read was .010 of an inch fore/aft. That confuses me, since the lobes in a roller cam are not tapered, the roller wheels on the lifters seem like they'd be fine with the wheel hanging off the edges a little. I'm just curious as to why they are supposed to restrict the fore/aft movement so much.
Back to the clearancing of the cam button....
I may buy a reinforced timing cover or weld a plate over mine. That makes sense.
Regarding the cam thrust button....
Let me guess....You must first measure the depth of the timing cover and gasket, then measure how far out the cam button sits out from the face of the block.....then somehow mill down the cam button to get to a number that is less than the depth of the timing cover by no more than .010.
I'm supposed to use a straightedge and plane across a tiny cam button to the face of the block? How is that done with accuracy?

 

[Kern Dog]

This sure seems time consuming.

 

[Kern Dog]

Let me guess....You must first measure the depth of the timing cover and gasket, then measure how far out the cam button sits out from the face of the block.....then somehow mill down the cam button to get to a number that is less than the depth of the timing cover by no more than .010.
I'm supposed to use a straightedge and plane across a tiny cam button to the face of the block? How is that done with accuracy?

Hmmm.....Pete covers this starting around 2.35: