I'm One PO'd Mopar Owner Today!!!!!

[Runner 68]

Hopefully

The glass is half full Bud, the glass is half full.

 

[6speedGTX]

I hope you get even with that little SOB! I can't stand dishonest people!!
Good luck!

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I would probably try the bluff with the whole numbers thing. I am also not a good one to ask about anything legal that's my friends area of expertise. good luck and thanks for sharing, a lesson to learn about stamping some code of your own in the engine somewhere if dropping off at a shop, even if shop is reputable thieves will find a way to exploit a problem

 

[1971 plymouth roadrunner]

Go over there with a truck and take the whole car, then strip out the engine, trans, and everything else you want and leave it on a street corner for the little sh*t to find

 

[BumperMan]

What I have leaned from this post is: it never hurts to take a lot of pictures and ask a lot of questions

thank for the information guys, this is good to know since I still consider myself a rookie in the car restoration area

 

[canuk]

I feel the same way . Id just want to rip his greazy head off .

 

[Lazarus]

With the whole engine numbers, you could always send him an email from your alias address and say something like, "I'm looking for a matching build date. Can I get the numbers on the block?". Then when you call this guy as yourself, you can tell him you have a bill of sale for the 360 with an engine block number of xxxxxx. If he has yours, he will probably crap his pants then.

 

[Roadbird]

I'd make him crap me a 440 in court. Hope things work out for you and thanks for the heads up on this POS.

 

[69 Charger RT/SE]

Sorry that you had to go through all this Bruzilla. As I read your story, I got the feeling that the kid is a con artist classic car wheeler dealer wannabe and the shop owner may just be in on the con. You said that you liked the idea of helping the kid (Mopar lover) get his ride on the road. I don't think he is a Mopar guy and he is just looking to make a lot of money by hook or crook and he saw a soft heart that he could take to the cleaners. I feel this way because the kid was wanting to sell the car shortly after you met him.

I know that real Mopar lovers and most car guys are great people and because we are, we sometimes are way too vulnerable and can be an easy target for dishonest people. They see us as an easy mark because they know we love cars and often automatically unquestionably trust anyone who says they too are gear heads and love cars. The moral is; don't trust someone just because he says he's a car guy. Make him prove it first and then be cautious in your dealings with him.

Hope you come out on the long end of the stick with this.

 

[Runner 68]

Sorry that you had to go through all this Bruzilla. As I read your story, I got the feeling that the kid is a con artist classic car wheeler dealer wannabe and the shop owner may just be in on the con. You said that you liked the idea of helping the kid (Mopar lover) get his ride on the road. I don't think he is a Mopar guy and he is just looking to make a lot of money by hook or crook and he saw a soft heart that he could take to the cleaners. I feel this way because the kid was wanting to sell the car shortly after you met him.

I know that real Mopar lovers and most car guys are great people and because we are, we sometimes are way too vulnerable and can be an easy target for dishonest people. They see us as an easy mark because they know we love cars and often automatically unquestionably trust anyone who says they too are gear heads and love cars. The moral is; don't trust someone just because he says he's a car guy. Make him prove it first and then be cautious in your dealings with him.

Hope you come out on the long end of the stick with this.

Excellent point. Cranium is a gear head and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

 

[Bruzilla]

I bet you are correct on this...
The "kid" has probably stole from the shop owner, he might not even notice....

Perhaps you can "BLUFF" the kid, say to him you have the build sheet & evidence on the 360 and if he does not cooperate, you will notify authorities..?
Nah, I watch too much NCIS...

Great idea, but here's another cautionary tale for you. A few years ago, a friend of my kids' stole a Beretta 96 pistol from me. I had no idea who had stolen it, and the local Sheriff's Office was doing nothing to investigate it. A month or so later, a cell phone went missing after this same POS visited our home. Putting two and two together, I figured this kid had to be the thief. I called the thief's girlfriend, who I also knew, and told her I needed to talk to Billy and asked her to call me if she hears from Billy (the thief). She called me back a little later and said the reason I couldn't get a hold of him was because he had a new cell phone, and guess what his new number was? Busted.

So I figured anyone stupid enough to steal a phone and start calling people we all knew with it would probably be stupid enough to talk about stealing a pistol. I asked someone who worked where Billy worked to ask around his pals to see if Billy had ever mentioned having a Beretta, and the next day I was told he had not only told them about it, he had brought it to work several times and he and his pals had taken it out shooting! Busted again.

Like I said, I knew this kid, knew his family, and knew his Dad had a lot of health issues, so the last thing I wanted to do was cause them a lot of legal issues over their kid doing something dumb. So before passing all this to the cops, I went to their house and talked to Billy and his Dad. I gave that kid every chance to come clean, and no deal. Deny, deny, deny, and Dad kept taking him at his word. I told them time and time again that I wouldn't be there is I wasn't 100% certain he had taken it, and I just wanted the gun back. No deal.

So I passed all the info to the cops, they went to talk to Billy, and later that day two deputies show up on my doorstep to tell me that I might be guilty of a charge of intimidating a witness because I went down and confronted this kid and his Dad!!!!!!!! I was told not to talk to either of them again, and that if I had any information I was to pass it to them and NOT talk to or confront these guys!

Long story short, I eventually got the kid arrested, convicted, and sent to jail; he had to pay me back for the replacement value of the gun; and I had to go through an agonizing apology from his father, but the big takeaway was don't confront or challenge anyone you suspect of a crime because you can end up being the one getting into trouble.

 

[super-bee_ski]

I hope you get even with that little SOB! I can't stand dishonest people!!
Good luck!

Gee, in the "Old days" you could "shoot a fella" for stealing a horse....
Lets get back to the "Old Days"...
I'm darn stinking tired of this Society where the Criminal is ALWAYS protected...

 

[Bruzilla]

Okay, here's an update. Last night I got home, borrowed my son's phone, and sent a text to the thief. I acted like a typical teenager getting their first cool car, that my daddy was getting me for Christmas, and dear old Dad needs some info before he'll commit the cash. The thief replied back that he was at work and would contact "my son" after he got off.

My son came in my room at 0130 with his phone and said the guy was texting him. I started texting him back, misspelling and using bad grammar like a kid would, which wasn't hard as I was still half asleep. I asked about if he still had the /6 and tranny from his Valiant, how Dad wanted to know about rust, what all would be needed to install the 360, and then subtlety worked in a question about how he knew the engine and tranny were running if they weren't in the car? He told me the engine and tranny had been in a road runner that was driven to his shop for an engine change (we're getting warm). He told me he no longer had the /6 or 904 tranny from the Valiant, which was a key piece of info since he had told me several months ago he had found a buyer for his /6, but the guy didn't want the tranny. And now he doesn't have it anymore... wonder where it went?

We talked some more about the condition of his car, then I brought the talk back to how my Dad was concerned about the engine maybe being blown or bad because it was from a wreck or pulled because it was no good anymore, and the thief repeated that the only reason the engine was pulled was because the owner of the Road Runner wanted a 440 put in (we're getting warmer). So then I said "so to sum this up, the engine and tranny are fine. They were only pulled because a guy brought a road runner to your shop and wanted the 360 and tranny taken out and one of those 440 engines and trannys put it, and not because the 360 was bad or anything?" and his reply was Absolutely. That is correct (gotcha MFer!)

I know there have only been two Road Runners in that shop all year. One was an orange 69 with a 440 that needed a new tranny, and mine. The only other Mopars that have been in there is the 71 Cuda the owner is working on now.

I contacted the former owners, explained what had happened, and they are sending me two notarized affidavits attesting to the fact that the car had a 360/727 drivetrain in it, and I'm having my pal in Orlando go back to the shop down there and get me the numbers off the 904 I dropped off. If they come back to a 1966 or so tranny, and not a 74, then I'll know for sure the tranny came from his car and hadn't been from my Road Runner.

I never thought I would start liking texting, but wow...

 

[ply64post]

Bruz

Today there are all kinds of trash that are crawling out from under the rocks!

Hope you can get this problem taken care of!

Just a thought is there any possibilty that the previous owner may have the serial numbers that the 360 came out of?

Jeff

 

[66Satellite_in_NC]

I would send someone you know down there to put a deposit on the car, that way you know where it will be. Get the deposit in writing, that way you can have a further edge on it, something small like $50. Also give it a timeline, like if I don't pay you the remainder by x date, he keeps the deposit. If this kid gets wind of anything screwy the car may end up getting hid and then the cops will have nothing to work with other than your text messages. when the car gets confiscated and the car can't be sold, the person putting the deposit down can also sue him if he doesn't get paid. 2x's the trouble for this kid.

Good luck catching this little scumbag and what ever he gets he deserves.

 

[MNBiker]

And it is possible the shop owner has no knowledge of this. If the kid was in good with the shop owner, he may have been able to work on his own stuff after hours. Shop owner leaves at 5, kid rolls his, or someone elses' in this case, vehicles in and goes to town. My brother in laws dad owns a repair shop and he is in the shop almost every weekend working on something. Lets me pull my rigs in an empty stall once in a while as well. If he was dishonest he could be getting away with all kinds of crap.

 

[trimmer]

It has always been my understanding that the owner of any type of business is responsible for the actions of their employees. I have owned my own shop for many years and I think I would surely notice a person changing an engine (so did that shop owner and in my opinion he is the one at fault). I am no lawyer but a verbal contract is still a contract where I come from. Don't feel bad because this owner is in his 60's, that is not an excuse for you to get the shaft. A deal is a deal any way you look at it. Maybe you should have checked his business out a little better (live and learn). I hope this works out in your favor and turns out to be good for you. Good Luck!!!

On a final note, a /6 904 will not bolt to small block Mopar so it should be easy to tell if you received this clown kid's tranny.

 

[Budnicks]

Okay, here's an update. Last night I got home, borrowed my son's phone, and sent a text to the thief. I acted like a typical teenager getting their first cool car, that my daddy was getting me for Christmas, and dear old Dad needs some info before he'll commit the cash. The thief replied back that he was at work and would contact "my son" after he got off.

My son came in my room at 0130 with his phone and said the guy was texting him. I started texting him back, misspelling and using bad grammar like a kid would, which wasn't hard as I was still half asleep. I asked about if he still had the /6 and tranny from his Valiant, how Dad wanted to know about rust, what all would be needed to install the 360, and then subtlety worked in a question about how he knew the engine and tranny were running if they weren't in the car? He told me the engine and tranny had been in a road runner that was driven to his shop for an engine change (we're getting warm). He told me he no longer had the /6 or 904 tranny from the Valiant, which was a key piece of info since he had told me several months ago he had found a buyer for his /6, but the guy didn't want the tranny. And now he doesn't have it anymore... wonder where it went?

We talked some more about the condition of his car, then I brought the talk back to how my Dad was concerned about the engine maybe being blown or bad because it was from a wreck or pulled because it was no good anymore, and the thief repeated that the only reason the engine was pulled was because the owner of the Road Runner wanted a 440 put in (we're getting warmer). So then I said "so to sum this up, the engine and tranny are fine. They were only pulled because a guy brought a road runner to your shop and wanted the 360 and tranny taken out and one of those 440 engines and trannys put it, and not because the 360 was bad or anything?" and his reply was Absolutely. That is correct (gotcha MFer!)

I know there have only been two Road Runners in that shop all year. One was an orange 69 with a 440 that needed a new tranny, and mine. The only other Mopars that have been in there is the 71 Cuda the owner is working on now.

I contacted the former owners, explained what had happened, and they are sending me two notarized affidavits attesting to the fact that the car had a 360/727 drivetrain in it, and I'm having my pal in Orlando go back to the shop down there and get me the numbers off the 904 I dropped off. If they come back to a 1966 or so tranny, and not a 74, then I'll know for sure the tranny came from his car and hadn't been from my Road Runner.

I never thought I would start liking texting, but wow...

Wow the plot thickens even more, this is like a good mystery novel... Sorry not meaning to make light of your situation... I hope the POS thief gets his much deserved, "hard justice" by Big Bubba in a jail cell, in the long run... Bruzilla, Good luck & I hope all this works out in your favor, there's almost nothing worse than a POS corrupt car guy, praying on others, that you thought you could trust, especially in an established retail/service business/shop... To me it just seems like, there's no way the old shop owner, couldn't have known, he/that kid was working on your car & taking the engine out, unless he's just lame &/or blind, not paying attention to running his business, that alone is a good reason to take the car away from there, if he's that freaken' incompetent, not paying attention to what "his employees are doing on his customers cars" {just my thoughts}... The dumb POS dumba$$ kidengine/trans/manifold thief, is now just burying himself, now telling you {acting as an alleged young buyer} where he even got the engine & trans out of, what a duma$$, I guess the old adage of, "no such thing as a smart crook/thief", is really true in this case... I hope the you & the law enforcement, can get your stuff back or monetary restitution for the parts at-least, then that POS go to jail, be Bubba's cell mate... keep us all posted/up-dated

 

[Bruzilla]

Okay, here's another update. I decided to make print outs of all the evidence I have and go have a chat with the shop owner. I agree that yes, he could be crooked, but I think at my age I've gotten to the point where I spot the crooked hustlers from the honest guys, and this guy reeks honesty. Nothing but good BBB records, no complaints, good regard from the car community, lots of repeat customers, etc., so I didn't feel the least bit hesitant in going to talk to him.

I started the conversation by telling him I was really pissed, that most likely by the time I left he would be really pissed, but that I wasn't expecting any resolution to what I was going to talk about today, so I didn't want him to feel like I was pressuring him to do anything right now, nor did I expect him to, which I thought were some good ground rules.

The first thing I asked was how many road runners had been in his shop this year, and he confirmed what I already knew, there had only been two. What I didn't know was the 69 I had seen was his own car, so his car and mine were the only two road runners in the shop during the period in question. I then asked him if the thief was still working for him, and he said no. I asked if he had let him go, and he said yes. I asked if he could tell me why, and he said he didn't feel comfortable doing that, which is very understandable.

I then laid out the whole story just like I did with you guys, ending with the texts from early this morning. The owner kept trying to make the case that he thought the guys I bought the car from must be lying, and that had to have been a 318 they took out. I asked him if he had checked the pad for the engine size after they pulled it, and he said no. Then he said when I picked the engine up it was exactly where they had put it after they pulled it, and I asked if he could say it was the exact same engine in that spot, or only that there was a dirty,blue, engine in that spot, and he said he hadn't really looked at it and it could have been a different engine.

About this time he started becoming much more free with his information, and he told me that the thief had told him that he had found a 360 engine online, and that he and his Dad had driven someplace down South to pick it up, and that's what he was going to put in his Valiant. I showed him the texts where the thief said three times that the engine had come from a road runner that had been driven to the shop by an owner who wanted the engine swapped. He kept saying again and again that this could not have happened because no other road runners had been at the shop but ours, thus making my case again and again. He kept saying how he thought this kid was honest, but I said he told you he got the engine online and went someplace south to pick it up, he's telling me here three times he got it from a car that came to the shop. He was either lying to you or he's lying to me, but whichever way it goes, he's not being honest.

That's when it seemed to sink in for the owner that yeah, maybe the engines could have been swapped out and he confirmed there had been times when the kid was working by himself at the shop (opportunity), that he had full access to the engine, stands, lifts, tools, and everything that would be needed to make the switch (access), and I found out I had been right about the kid having second thoughts about paying $1,500 and how he wanted a 360 but not pay all that money (motive). Law School 101... convictions are made based on proving opportunity, access, and motive, and he confirmed I've got all three.

I told the owner I don't want to see a young man with a kid ruin his life over a stupid mistake, and as far as I was concerned the deal for the shop credit was made with him, not the thief. I told him I have three options: I can go to the police and start an investigation, which wouldn't be a good thing for him or the kid. I can file a lawsuit against him and his business and I would definitely win because while he could sit there and say he didn't think the kid would do this, I have a written, admissible, statement from the kid stating clearly that he did. Or, the option I hoped to take, was he and I could think this over for a day or so and come up with an amicable solution to where he makes good on his promise, he can take whatever action with the kid he wants, and I get my car finished, finished right, and back by the end of the year. I said you committed to a $1,500 credit, my balance is $900 and some change, I don't need any refunds or money back, just get the car done and done right, we call it even, and you can work with this kid to get your money back or just bite the bullet.

He thanked me for giving him some time to think about, and he said he was going to get in touch with the kid and see what the heck happened. He then called in his shop foreman, and we had the same reaction but unlike his boss who seemed to think the idea this kid would do this was not possible, the foreman repeatedly said things like "that's really messed up if he did that", so the vibe I was getting was either the foreman knew what was going on, or at least knows the kid a lot better than the owner and could see him doing this.

So, I left at 1310 EST, which was about two hours ago, and they were going to get a hold of the kid, tell him a very heavy load is about to drop on his head, and if he's got anything to come clean about, now would be the time. I expected if the kid denied, denied, denied, I would have heard back in quick order, but it's been two hours and no word yet, so I'm guessing they either haven't got him to answer his phone, or the answers he gave posed a real problem and now the owner is trying to figure out what to do about it. It should be interesting to see what happens next. I never thought my Pittsbird project would end as an episode of Law and Order.

By the way guys, you might want to keep in mind that evidence is only important to make a case in the absence of a statement. Evidence is always open to challenge and interpretation. One person can say it means one thing, and another can say it means something different, but a statement/admission of guilt is tough to challenge. If a guys says "yeah, I did it", and says it three times, it's about impossible for a Defense to say what the admitted to is not what he admitted to. This is why I'm not worried about numbers. All I need to make my case are statements from the previous owners that the engine was a 360, a statement from the guy I sold it to that the engine was a 318, and a written statement from a guy with motive, access, and opportunity saying he did it. He's all mine!

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Damn.. sorry to hear about your troubles bruce. I think hyrdgoon is on to something, BS the kid saying you've got the numbers and get him to fess up. Before you say anything make sure it really is your motor though. But if you find beyond any doubt that it is, make it clear you'll rain an ungodly firestorm down on his @ss. Good luck and keep us posted!