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It's body time and i've got questions

69clone

69clone

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Looks like I'm finally going to get the car stripped and painted, i talked my dad into helping me undertake this project and it just so happened our neighbor across the street is going on a trip, So he's letting us borrow his empty garage. Not sure when we're going to start dismantling my car, most likely this weekend and i was hoping i could get some help on alot of things we're going to have questions with, but right now one thing i was wondering is it best to take all the molding off the car? If so how do i get it off? Ether way I'm thinking of polishing up all of it, anyone know of a good way to do that? I have read people sanding them with 400 til you reach 2000 then polish any info on that? What about body work anything i should know that my dad may not know/remember from his last paint project, We saw some stuff at auto zone that i believe was metal fill or aluminum fill, don't remember but is that something i should get? I saw something in the Eastwood catalog looks like a soldier but was lead fill? Is that something i should look into getting? Don't have any big imperfections, Just some small things, like bubbling (Sure it's rust in the quarters) along with new rust coming in where i chipped off some paint in the corner of the windshield where the molding meets the top of the A pillar? (Right, A pillar?)
Anyways i hope i didn't overwhelm you guys, I'm just excited about this.
Btw my dad has painted cars in the past and hopefully he'll do a good job it's been a good 10 years, but hopefully with the single stage we can put enough coats on where we can really wet sand the hell out of it and get any runs or problems out of it.
Alright that should get me started,
Thanks alot in advance!
~Nick
 
I don't mean to rain on your parade but if you have to ask that many questions you probably are not ready to tear the whole car apart, the aluminum trim you have to strip the clear anodizing off of first before polishing, you can use oven cleaner with lye and then sand till your fingers bleed and then buff and hope to god you don't get the trim caught in the buffer and it throws it like a javelin across the room into a wall (buddy did it on some crap 55 Chevy trim!). All-metal body filler is used mainly in areas that would have originally been leaded (the way the factory did it) A pillar to roof and Sail panel to quarter panel, DON'T USE IT AS A FINISH FILLER! It is hard as a mother to sand and you should use a featherlite filler on top to finish out the roughed in area and don't use Bondo brand use a quality filler such as ASC, Don't fiddle with LEAD! If you don't know how to lead properly its worse than a bad plastic filler job, And why are you painting single stage??? Base/Clear is easy and more forgiving. Painting part isn't the hard part, one big key word PREP,PREP,PREP,PREP!!!!!If that surface isn't prepared right you can lay down a slick paint job and it will look like a turd!!!! Have fun and don't rush it!
 
But it's very good to see high energy and excitement to learn this stuff.

Take lots of pictures as you are disasembling, label fasteners and trim pieces. I use a piece of masking tape on some emblems and trim, write LH, RH etc with a marker. Zip lock bags are great for small parts and fasteners/clips, keep them in little families. example "center grill screws" "headlight bezel screws" etc.

Things like the tail light bezels and tail light houseings that have nuts on threaded studs, just go ahead and thread the nuts back onto the studs and label them left and right etc.

Your rear windshield stainless will be some of your most challenging trim to remove. it tends to become glued in place with the urethane that holds the glass in along with 40 years of do it yourselfer silicone and other junk previous owners have squirted in there to try and seal a leak.

Don't bend or dent that stuff, you have to be careful with it. Windshield trim is tough to remove normally just due to the clips but when that urethane fights you too it's really a bear.

Yes I would remove all the trim, but just focus on removing old paint overspray etc from the trim for now... stripping and buffing is a whole other segment in itself.

As greenmonsta says, prep, prep, prep.

That's what a "paint job" is.

Are you going to strip the car to bare metal?

Is it going to be a color change?

The actual spraying of the paint is not where the magic is. The spray gun isn't a magic wand. It's up to you to create a perfect foundation for that paint to lay down on. the paint is the opposite of forgiving, it will not correct anything for you, it will simply draw attention to flaws.

It's all in the bodywork, and good body work is most often finished by hand. Many, many hours of hand sanding with the right papers, using the right blocks on the right fillers and primers.
 
northerndave said:
But it's very good to see high energy and excitement to learn this stuff.

Take lots of pictures as you are disasembling, label fasteners and trim pieces. I use a piece of masking tape on some emblems and trim, write LH, RH etc with a marker. Zip lock bags are great for small parts and fasteners/clips, keep them in little families. example "center grill screws" "headlight bezel screws" etc.

Things like the tail light bezels and tail light houseings that have nuts on threaded studs, just go ahead and thread the nuts back onto the studs and label them left and right etc.

Your rear windshield stainless will be some of your most challenging trim to remove. it tends to become glued in place with the urethane that holds the glass in along with 40 years of do it yourselfer silicone and other junk previous owners have squirted in there to try and seal a leak.

Don't bend or dent that stuff, you have to be careful with it. Windshield trim is tough to remove normally just due to the clips but when that urethane fights you too it's really a bear.

Yes I would remove all the trim, but just focus on removing old paint overspray etc from the trim for now... stripping and buffing is a whole other segment in itself.

As greenmonsta says, prep, prep, prep.

That's what a "paint job" is.

Are you going to strip the car to bare metal?

Is it going to be a color change?

The actual spraying of the paint is not where the magic is. The spray gun isn't a magic wand. It's up to you to create a perfect foundation for that paint to lay down on. the paint is the opposite of forgiving, it will not correct anything for you, it will simply draw attention to flaws.

It's all in the bodywork, and good body work is most often finished by hand. Many, many hours of hand sanding with the right papers, using the right blocks on the right fillers and primers.
Click to expand...

Thanks guys,
I was considering on having someone else do it but thats no fun plus it will be nice to say i did it, good or bad.
I don't know if we're going to bare metal or not, My dads friend used to own a shop that did custom paint and he said we could just rough this paint enough so new paint would stick, but go to metal where we think any rust or bondo is. The color is going to be the same. That reminds me what was the paint code for plum crazy purple? C7? Also the original stuff had metallic in it, right? I assume thats how it comes but i've seen what was claimed to be plum crazy purple and it didn't have the metallic.

Also thanks for the info on the trim, Only reason i thought of doing the sanding/polish technique is because if i scratched the paint it wouldn't be as big a deal before it's painted. I have never attempted to remove it and didn't know if it was glued,clipped or screwed in. I know the driver side bottom of the rear window trip isn't sticking so maybe that will give me some leverage on removing it, Bought a kit yesterday of trim & molding removal in case i would need it.
Thanks again, It will be cool to see the outcome since i have considered going to school for this and making a career out of it.

~Nick
 
greenmonsta79 said:
I don't mean to rain on your parade but if you have to ask that many questions you probably are not ready to tear the whole car apart, the aluminum trim you have to strip the clear anodizing off of first before polishing, you can use oven cleaner with lye and then sand till your fingers bleed and then buff and hope to god you don't get the trim caught in the buffer and it throws it like a javelin across the room into a wall (buddy did it on some crap 55 Chevy trim!). All-metal body filler is used mainly in areas that would have originally been leaded (the way the factory did it) A pillar to roof and Sail panel to quarter panel, DON'T USE IT AS A FINISH FILLER! It is hard as a mother to sand and you should use a featherlite filler on top to finish out the roughed in area and don't use Bondo brand use a quality filler such as ASC, Don't fiddle with LEAD! If you don't know how to lead properly its worse than a bad plastic filler job, And why are you painting single stage??? Base/Clear is easy and more forgiving. Painting part isn't the hard part, one big key word PREP,PREP,PREP,PREP!!!!!If that surface isn't prepared right you can lay down a slick paint job and it will look like a turd!!!! Have fun and don't rush it!
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'm not worried about taking the car apart i have taken a good part of it apart i just was concerned about the trim, Also thanks for the info on cleaning and polishing it, I have heard horror stories about buffers lol I do it the old fashioned way with a rag, polish and alot of elbow grease :p I understand it's all in the body work and prep, Luckily I'm a perfectionist and i have to have it just right or else it'll eat me up.

I assumed single stage would be easier and being plum crazy purple i heard it doesn't look the same as it would in single stage, Although if you guys think base/clear is easier idk maybe it is, we'll see. None of our plans are set in stone, Which is why i posted more info,advice and ideas.
Thanks for the help,
~Nick
 
69clone said:
Thanks, I'm not worried about taking the car about i have taken a good part of it apart i just was concerned about the trim, Also thanks for the info on cleaning and polishing it, I have heard horror stories about buffers lol I do it the old fashioned way with a rag, polish and alot of elbow grease :p I understand it's all in the body work and prep, Luckily I'm a perfectionist and i have to have it just right or else it'll eat me up.

I assumed single stage would be easier and being plum crazy purple i heard it doesn't look the same as it would in single stage, Although if you guys think base/clear is easier idk maybe it is, we'll see. None of our plans are set in stone, Which is why i posted more info,advice and ideas.
Thanks for the help,
~Nick
Click to expand...

I hope you're taking pictures before, during, and after. Especially since this is your first project. Preserve the memories. Then post them so we can enjoy too. Don't sweat the critiquing, it's how we learn. I may be attempting the same once we move into our new place and have the room. Have fun.

:worthless_thread:
 
Hey Nick, not to be too nosey but how old are ya?

I'm over 40 and I like to think I'm still learning about paint and body work even though I started messing with it as a teenager and it's eventually developed into a career for me.

When I look at a car at the beginning of a refinishing effort I take a lot of things into consideration which help me develop a plan for that individual car.

There isn't exactly one recipe list to follow for all projects. Some of the things I look at are: What's the paint like on the car right now? How much paint is on the car right now? (how many recoats has it had).

How is the paint physically? (is it flaky and brittle? is it soft and gummy?) How much panel patching/replacement will need to be done?

If I am to leave some paint on a car in my refinish efforts then I have to trust that paint, I have to have faith in it. Adhesion is my first concern, my new paint will hang onto this old paint, but will the old paint hang onto whatever is under it?

You can usually tell by looking at the car if it's one of those projects where you just want all that old paint gone and need to start fresh on bare metal.

Primers, fillers, sealers... those are important.

Stay away from the cheap lacquer primers, it's junk, the solvents are too strong for a lot of old paints you may be going over (can wrinkle and lift) and the solids level is just too low, no film build for you $ and efforts.

Stick with the 2k urethanes that are marketed as "surfacers" or "high build" or if you really want to save yourself a bunch of sweat and take the fast track to a straight body then look for polyester primers like evercoat slick sand or clausen "all you need" or comparables. you will need a designated gun to shoot that stuff because it's so thick. You'll need about a 2.2 mm gun tip to spray it (compare that to a 1.5-ish you might use for base coats or clears)

but primer isn't magic either, that polyester primer is damn near magic but You still have to do the best you can with glaze coats of poly filler and hand sanding with long boards before you spray that stuff.

Then again with the long boards, hand sanding the polyester primer.

When you get closer to wanting stuff like sandpaper, sanding blocks, tools, primer, paint etc... drop me a PM and I will fast track you to some big $ savings over your local automotive shops. It's taken me many years to figure out how to save money and still end up with products that work, and it's a moving target but I can share with you what I use today and where I buy it from.
Dave
 
Hey I just read "paint basics" which is stickied at the top of the exterior paint and bodywork section here, very well written, i agree 100% and it's well worth the read.
 
northerndave said:
Hey Nick, not to be too nosey but how old are ya?

I'm over 40 and I like to think I'm still learning about paint and body work even though I started messing with it as a teenager and it's eventually developed into a career for me.

When I look at a car at the beginning of a refinishing effort I take a lot of things into consideration which help me develop a plan for that individual car.

There isn't exactly one recipe list to follow for all projects. Some of the things I look at are: What's the paint like on the car right now? How much paint is on the car right now? (how many recoats has it had).

How is the paint physically? (is it flaky and brittle? is it soft and gummy?) How much panel patching/replacement will need to be done?

If I am to leave some paint on a car in my refinish efforts then I have to trust that paint, I have to have faith in it. Adhesion is my first concern, my new paint will hang onto this old paint, but will the old paint hang onto whatever is under it?

You can usually tell by looking at the car if it's one of those projects where you just want all that old paint gone and need to start fresh on bare metal.

Primers, fillers, sealers... those are important.

Stay away from the cheap lacquer primers, it's junk, the solvents are too strong for a lot of old paints you may be going over (can wrinkle and lift) and the solids level is just too low, no film build for you $ and efforts.

Stick with the 2k urethanes that are marketed as "surfacers" or "high build" or if you really want to save yourself a bunch of sweat and take the fast track to a straight body then look for polyester primers like evercoat slick sand or clausen "all you need" or comparables. you will need a designated gun to shoot that stuff because it's so thick. You'll need about a 2.2 mm gun tip to spray it (compare that to a 1.5-ish you might use for base coats or clears)

but primer isn't magic either, that polyester primer is damn near magic but You still have to do the best you can with glaze coats of poly filler and hand sanding with long boards before you spray that stuff.

Then again with the long boards, hand sanding the polyester primer.

When you get closer to wanting stuff like sandpaper, sanding blocks, tools, primer, paint etc... drop me a PM and I will fast track you to some big $ savings over your local automotive shops. It's taken me many years to figure out how to save money and still end up with products that work, and it's a moving target but I can share with you what I use today and where I buy it from.
Dave
Click to expand...

I'm 19 now, The paint on my car is fine. It was a TN car so 99% rust free, It has a few chips, both quarters have a small area of bubbling around the wheelwell, if i need to i'll take it to my friends shop and have him patch them, the paint is suppoisdly 25+ years old and the top is faded but other then that the paint has no problems not cracking,flaking or any of that stuff. My dads friend told us to get some type of primer i think it's thick or heavy but i guess it helps fill in any scratches up to a certain grid of sandpaper. I'll have to ask my dad again.
Btw thanks for the offer i hopefully bought enough sand paper and whatnot but if i do need more i'll hit you up, Heck i'll pm you anyways just to have on hand.
Oh and i did check the Painting Basic's it was helpful.
Thanks,
~Nick
 
Really good to see younger people wrenching on these cars instead of glueing wings onto honda civics & stuff like that.

:grin:

I'm sure you and your dad will do great on the project.

Sandpaper for DA sanders and for longboards like hutchins 16" speed files can be one of the things that really stacks up the $ in a project. I used to go broke trying to buy that stuff at my local auto parts stores.

Just a friendly tip on the paper, shop online for a brand called "Indasa" it's been working really well for me and it's cheap.

go to autobodytoolmart.com or smartshoppersinc.com (i kinda like smartshoppers)

Also... for primers, base coats, single stage, clear coats etc... Same, smartshoppersinc and look for "kirker" line of products.

Nuthing wrong with that stuff and it'll save you a lot of $.

I know they sell plumb crazy in a single stage too.

UA - 50230

Take pictures and start a project thread.
 
Thanks for the info, I wish I had known that earlier before I bought everything :( guess it will be good to have on hand for the next car. Our neighbor left earlier today and we ended up pulling the car in their, from what we've been told we only need to rough the paint enough so the new stuff sticks but we went to metal in and around every spot we expected rust. We were lucky enough to only find 3 spots so far of rust, two barely big enough for a screw driver to go in and the 3rd is about the size of a quarter. Glad I bought a southern garaged car! Being all original metal and what not. Anyways I have a question about the holes we don't have a welder and wondering if there is anything we can do besides welding patches or bondo. I'm hoping that because they are so small that I could do something simple. My dad was wondering if a piece of fiberglass mat and some resin will look/work good? We'll hit these areas with our sand basted tomorrow and spray some rust stopper stuff on them. Hardest part of dismantling was the stupid bumpers then we realized that the front could be removed from the frame with 2 bolts along with the rear...
 
you really should weld in new metal but if you can get behind the area it would be best to put some fiberglass mat behind the metal and then use fine chop strand glass filler, best also not to go sand blasting on exterior body panels you can warp them pretty good from heat buildup.
 
greenmonsta79 said:
you really should weld in new metal but if you can get behind the area it would be best to put some fiberglass mat behind the metal and then use fine chop strand glass filler, best also not to go sand blasting on exterior body panels you can warp them pretty good from heat buildup.
Click to expand...

Thanks I believe I can get behind it, the hole that is the size of a quarter is in the rear corner about 2" from the corner to be exact. What would you do about the 2 pee size holes? Same thing? One is in the bottom corner of the pass. door the other above the driver side rear wheel. If I lightly sand blasted them would that be fine? How do you know if it's hot enough to warp? Warm to the touch? I was wanting to blast a few spots, but didn't expect it to warp, thanks for letting me know :)
 
Yeah I really hate it, I know your on a budget but those small holes are gonna get bigger quicker since the rust is eating away on the backside of that panel,
make sure you use a good rust convertor on the backside first and make sure you let it dry good (usually 24 hours) if they are real small I would say just use the short chop strand glass filler, don't use regular plastic filler as it will absorb moisture and "pop" out make sure its the chop strand glass filler, and don't get the long strand glass filler or what is known as "kitty hair" that stuff is a mess,And as far as the sand blasting, If you have a Harbor Freight near you they sell Walnut shells and it will remove rust and not warp panels (and won't kill your lungs like Silica sand dust!!) I guess if you have to sand blast just do it where you know filler will cover and you really need to sand the area the filler will be applied to with a 36 grit paper to get maximum adhesion for the filler to grip to,also use a good sand-able 2 part glazing putty not the squeeze on and smear it will dry and shrink and you will see sand scratch marks after it shrinks! also I don't know if you know about guide coating a panel? If you are using grey primer just use a can of black primer and "DUST" spray the primed area and sand it with a 220 to make sure you don't have any high or low spots.
 
69 these guys covered a lot but remember Patience is something you'll need... I know the car comes from down south but don't be to surprised once you start and find a little more of the rust and things that go with it.. Have no idea who may have worked on the car before you and some are very good at covering things. Bag-n-tag and lots of photos you wont regret. enjoy! its a great feeling once done knowing you did it yourself great father son project for sure.. Good luck to you. Ron
NutzoMullet.gif
 
69 I'm glad your doing it yourself! I've had my Bee since I was 18 and while I had dreams of doing it myself I got lazy/busy and ended up going the cheap shop route...also a perfectionist and the body shop guy and my idea of perfect were definitely not the same. One thing that's helped me along beyond bagging and tagging is to keep a list of what's next. There will inevitably be days when the weather may not cooperate for spraying paint or just sick of working on one particular part and I found myself distracted into little side projects that while needed to be done, weren't done in probably the most logical order.

Good luck and hope the best!

Cole
 
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