It's Heavy, now let's see how quick this big tub of fun is.

[Longroof]

Took my 64 Savoy Wagon over to the scales today to get it weighed.

4120 lbs with me in it (245lbs) at race weight so 3880 without driver

And it has 2260 lbs on the rear axle, that is 54.8%. No wonder the wagon's hook great!!

The combo is a pretty basic 440 forged crannk, LY rods, Icon pistons with 10.6:1 compression, Stealth Aluminum Heads with some minimal clean up and a port match to the intake no idea what they flow, Hughes Mechanical Cam .564/.576 242/246 @.050 @109lsa, Headman Headers, Performer RPM, Holley 800, 727 with a 3200 rpm stall, RMVB, Dana 60 4.10 Posi, bastard pack wagon main leaf SS springs, with a clamp on each side.. Hoosier Quick Time Pro's and full exhaust. Wilwood street disc's, Mopar Aluminium Master Cylinder, Aluminum water pump and housing, full interior, everything works... wipers, lights, heater, dome light...

The real goal with the car is to run in the local Summit Series Sportsman Bracket class (footbrake only) with a 12.00 limit. So no quicker than 12 flat.

What's everyone think?

Should be able to get to the track for a test n tune in a couple of weeks.

It feels like this car has been sitting forever. Can't wait to see what it will do?

According to the Wallace Racing calculators it shows that I will need about 471 HP to get this big tub o fun to run 12.0's - assuming everything else in the combination gets along and works right.

 

[cudatom]

Man that is heavy. Makes me wonder what my 67 wagon weights. You should hit the times you want. My combo has has some more cubes and a little more duration on the exhaust end and has been 6.994(1/8th) with some fuel delivery issues.
Car looks killer and think you will have lots of fun.

 

[Budnicks]

You need about 480hp to run 12.00's with a 4200# car

try http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm
it will have a bunch of assorted calc.'s
you can get a relatively decent idea of what it could possibly do

good luck

 

[Mike Gaines]

I think all of Wallace Calcs are based on REAR WHEEL HP....not flywheel Dyno type HP...so 471REAR WHEEL HP is what EngineDyno HP PROBABLY well over 550 or so...I am not sure. The great thing is....if it runs FASTER than 12.00 then buy an ET GENIE (like I have) to slow it down to 12 flat....then 100% of the guys dialed in at slower than 12 flat will have to LEAVE FIRST....so u can watch them redlite...best position to be in.

The ET Genie is a restrictor plate that "slides" closing off the air/fuel delivery to make the motor seem smaller. You set it with a dial indicator. After a few trial settings you can get it dialed in almost perfect to the ET you want to run....you floor the accelerator like normal and run it full blast only the ET Genie is slowing you down to the desired ET.

I dont mean to hi-jack the thread but I thought this would be interesting to Mr. LongRoof....and Good Luck at your first Test & Tune of the Year.

 

[Longroof]

slow it down to 12 flat....then 100% of the guys dialed in at slower than 12 flat will have to LEAVE FIRST....so u can watch them redlite...best position to be in

That is the plan, but don't tell anyone... haha but that requires the 12.0? first

I played with a few of the wallace calculators and correct some are RWHP. It is 471 crank HP which I think I should be able to make... it looks to be an honest 500 - 525 HP based on parts... but we all know how that goes... sometimes you are the guy with a smile, other times you are the guy kicking rocks...

 

[Brewzer67]

I used to run a smaller 440 based combo than that and ran 12.01 all day long at 4260lbs in my'67 Coronet. It's all in sweating the details.

 

[dvw]

Wallace is flywheel. Though I think the average Dyno numbers are usually a bit optimistic. Your combo looks like it should be able to get close. The converter may be too tight and my bet is it could use more gear but I can see it's still street driven. We'll know after the first test.
Doug

 

[Longroof]

Wallace is flywheel. Though I think the average Dyno numbers are usually a bit optimistic. Your combo looks like it should be able to get close. The converter may be too tight and my bet is it could use more gear but I can see it's still street driven. We'll know after the first test.
Doug

My thoughts are the converter could be looser too, but when I launched it on a deserted road in an industrial complex the car hooked pretty good and transfered weight topping out the front shocks and pulled through first without any hessitation or feeling lazy, but a looser converter would be quicker. The gear is what it is... The track is about 45 minutes of freeway driving away so 4.10's and a 28" tire is going to be about the limit, for me anyways.

Will know more after the first run.. I want the 12.0? but more importantly it needs to cut a light and run the number. Being the fastest car in the slowest bracket class is not really an accomplishment, but there certainly are advantages as stated by Mike Gaines.

 

[hangn0ut]

Same wheelbase as a 2 door sedan but with a lot more rear overhang. I wish i had never gotten rid of my 63 dodge 440 wagon.

 

[Longroof]

Well it went ok for a first outing. The car ran 12.38 @ 110 on the first pass and I just brought the converter up above idle and left.

2nd pass took off the air cleaner and came up on the converter about 2000 rpm - 12.28 @111 - had a .048 light Density Altitude was around 1600 feet.

I think that I can get close to the 12.0 with some more tuning.

in the lanes for the third pass and realize that trans fluid is leaking from the dip stick tube... previous owner put in one of the locking dip sticks and it had a gm style gromet thing... not good... no spares - went home. All and all not a bad day... it made it there and back in one piece and I had fun... I am confident that I can cut a light with the car. Cant wait to put a dial in on the window and play.

 

[Mike Gaines]

Longroof...Glad you were happy with your first 2 run results.
Here is what I have found....(and I am sure other Mopar Racers will confirm it)...If your car runs 12.28 now and with some more tuning such as jetting/timing/launch RPM/rear tire pressure and you get it down to, let's say 12.15...THEN JUST BE HAPPY WITH THAT and run it all year and have a good time.
Don't get into the trap (like I did, and probably many others) of chasing a particular ET (such at 11.80 or 11.90) and then end up spending several thousand dollars to get there. Just run it at your current ET's and HAVE A GOOD TIME.

I did NOT do that...
My car, with its old 440" motor and setup ran a perfect 12.00 at 113mph all day long. I just had to go faster....now, about $10,000 later I have everything I need to go 10.60's (brand new 505" motor, etc, etc) and my next outing to chase that ET is Feb 19,20,21. My car went 10.989 on my first outing with the all new $10,000 in upgrades and I am sure it will go into the 10.70's (or 10.60's now that I spent another $1000 for a Dominator carb)....BUT WILL I BE HAPPY....PROBABLY NOT.

 

[bobtile]

I knew you would be in the 12's easily. I was able to pick up .4 with tuning.

 

[lewtot184]

using the mopar engine book tables it's about 455hp at the crank.

 

[Hemi Rebel]

Is a density altitude of 1600 feet normal for your track?

 

[dvw]

Good start. I believe there is way more than 111 in that combo. How many rpm through the traps? What did it 60ft, 1/8 ET&MPH?
Doug

 

[lewtot184]

i would think head work and more carburetor should do 500hp without a problem. a ch28 would let the car slip into n/ss.

 

[Longroof]

For some reason I cant get the time slip to load... but here are the numbers


R/T .048
60 1.765
330 5.103
660 7.870
mph 88.51
1000 10.263
1/4 12.280
mph 111.65

RPM at finish line was right about 5600

It is leaving soft..but in all fairness it does have a stock hi-stall converter... A converter change would really pick the car up, but that is not in the budget right now. I am going to take it out and run some brackets with it, I am just really happy that I went .048 on the tree when I left in my usual spot, and I can get tighten it up a bunch from where I am now. The Summit series Sportsman class has an ET cut off of 12.0 and that is really the goal for the car. If I could get it to pick up some MPH that would be great but ET wise I think I am close enought to being at the quicker end of the pack. And as Mike Gaines said, be happy. Im not tied to the 12.0 come hell or high water.. just thought it would be fun to put 12.0 and chase EVERY other car down. I can certainly work with where I am at, afterall it's a bracket race.

The Density Altitude of 1600 ft is actually pretty good for Fontana, I have been out there in the middle of summer where it is well over 3000ft...

 

[Cranky]

I like getting chased but have a car that pulls hard on the top end. A buddy and I played with 318 Demon that cut 2.2 60's but ran 102 mph with a 13.51 ET. No problem for most to catch it by half track but they usually couldn't stay with it once it decided to run. For awhile, it fooled a lot of people lol

 

[Longroof]

I like getting chased but have a car that pulls hard on the top end. A buddy and I played with 318 Demon that cut 2.2 60's but ran 102 mph with a 13.51 ET. No problem for most to catch it by half track but they usually couldn't stay with it once it decided to run. For awhile, it fooled a lot of people lol

I have raced those kinds of cars... can't count on a win light at 1/2 track... but they are tricky..

The weirdest thing I ever raced against was an 8.0?? Snowmobile at the Vegas Thanksgiving bracket race deal.. It was all black with the guy riding it in all black leathers and helmet... at night... it was hard to judge him... but luckily he broke out..

 

[dvw]

For sure the converter would help. The power numbers look low but the converter could be masking that. A friends 65 ran 12.0-12.1@ 107. Swapped the converter picked up to 11.70@ 113 , later 11.58@116. No change in the motor.
Doug