Let's Debate

[1STMP]

This is a subject that has
been tossed around since
forever.
Which is better, or under
what conditions would you
consider either, or?
Watts Link or Panhard Bar?
I'd be very interested to
hear your opinions.
Let 'er rip.

 

[pnora]

Wishbone or Diagonal link.

 

[Rebelrouser]

This is a subject that has
been tossed around since
forever.
Which is better, or under
what conditions would you
consider either, or?
Watts Link or Panhard Bar?
I'd be very interested to
hear your opinions.
Let 'er rip.

Panhard bar will drag the tires as suspension goes through travel. The longer the panhard bar the better it is, I would not use a panhard bar on a big tire narrow rear axle where you have no room for a long one. Diagonal link is the easy and most common way to go, only drawback is ground clearance on the street, drag cars this is usually not a problem. Watts link is the best way to go, keeps axle in line regardless of suspension travel and gives good ground clearance, sometimes hard to find room under a stockbody vehicle.

 

[j-c-c-62]

A proper "debate" would define the application.

Road race, circle track, street, drag, etc

My personal interest is road race, Mopar TA cars often switched back and forth. Why, I am not certain, but it was not rule based as far as I know. Watts is tougher to package and install, but it is sexier.

And a watts begs the next question, which of the two typical mounting styles is chosen.

edit: meaning is your center point chassis or rear end mounted.

 

[toolmanmike]

Watts Linkage

 

[1STMP]

We used a Watts Link set up
on the tube chassis. A LPW
diff cover had enough
material where it could be
drilled and tapped to mount
the bars.

 

[kiwigtx]

This is a subject that has
been tossed around since
forever.

I got worried when I read the thread title....asking for everyone to contribute to the debate.....making it a mass-debate.

Then I see the first sentence.

BTW...I'm all for the rear leaf spring/ front coil options..... or torsion bars.

 

[1STMP]

The chassis we built was
initially designed for strictly
strip use but ended up
designing for street and
strip, which added quite a
bit of build time.
Novice to Mopars drivetrain
we pulled an axle out from
under a Dodge Diplomat
police cruiser and shortened
it by 6 inches.
The 4 link kit we purchased
was outfitted with rubber
bushing ends from a Datsun
240 Z. 1'1/4" dia, 80
durometer to lessen the
shock to an inherently weak
8-1/4. The Watts Link also
helps to stabilize the pinion
angle under hard
acceleration, and the LPW
diff cover has bearing cap
reinforcing bolts.

 

[j-c-c-62]

The Watts Link also
helps to stabilize the pinion
angle under hard
acceleration,

Care to explain?

 

[1STMP]

Care to explain?

It's how we designed the
brackets that mount the
link bars to the frame.
The links use the same
rubber as the 4-link bars.
The Watts Link bars
help to reduce axle housing
rotation as well as keeping
the housing centered.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Panhard bar will drag the tires as suspension goes through travel. The longer the panhard bar the better it is, .........

Just to keep everybody on the same page:
If you rear has say 6" travel (a lot imo) and it moves 3" away from rest, either direction, with a 40" bar the rear offset will be .1127", check my math if you please.
If you hit a bump and you have 3" of travel as a result, .1127" will not be your concern.
If you have a soft enough suspension, or big enough grippy tires to achieve 3" of compression when cornering, your tire sidewall flex will likely far exceed .1127".
Lastly, even a Watts has an arc factor at extreme travel , but significantly less than a Panhard.
We could also include a Jacobs ladder in this discussion.

 

[1STMP]

Just to keep everybody on the same page:
If you rear has say 6" travel (a lot imo) and it moves 3" away from rest, either direction, with a 40" bar the rear offset will be .1127", check my math if you please.
If you hit a bump and you have 3" of travel as a result, .1127" will not be your concern.
If you have a soft enough suspension, or big enough grippy tires to achieve 3" of compression when cornering, your tire sidewall flex will likely far exceed .1127".
Lastly, even a Watts has an arc factor at extreme travel , but significantly less than a Panhard.
We could also include a Jacobs ladder in this discussion.

I left the Jacob's ladder off
the list mainly due to this
type axle housing control
"system" being mainly used
on sprint cars with the ability
to raise and lower roll
centers, though they do offer
suspension adjustments as
well.
Sprint car chassis are
narrow, and as such,
limit the lengths of
panhard bars. (which
control roll centers).
Thanks very much for your
input!

 

[1STMP]

What caught up with us is
the initial design was for a
strip runner. We ordered
Koni drag shocks (circa
2001). They're not the
best for the street, and
the performance can be
felt. Strong on jounce,
soft on rebound.
Gotta wait 'til I'm a few
bucks richer to get some
better shocks.

 

[moparedtn]

 

[j-c-c-62]

I wonder why only the animation on a Watts and not include a Panhard bar?
Do I detect a hint of graphical bias here in this debate?

 

[1STMP]

View attachment 1652324

You can also rotate the
Watts 90deg from that
illustration and mount the
link bars side to side.

 

[1STMP]

I wonder why only the animation on a Watts and not include a Panhard bar?
Do I detect a hint of graphical bias here in this debate?

Nah...no bias here...

 

[moparedtn]

https://www.cjponyparts.com/media/images/resource-center/articles/body/panhard-bar-movement.gif

 

[1STMP]

https://www.cjponyparts.com/media/images/resource-center/articles/body/panhard-bar-movement.gif

Cool demos, Ed. Thanks!

 

[j-c-c-62]

Nah...no bias here...

Denial is often the first "tell" of bias, BTW.