Mini-Starter B block headers touching

[Steve009]

Hi,

I have a 400 block with TTi 2" x 2 1/8" step headers with a chrysler mini starter part number 3005984 with an 11" flywheel. According to the TTi website the 11" flywheel and ministarter will not fit with these headers. I learned this the hard way and saw my mini starter sitting on the header tube. ok fine, so they say to order a RobbMc mini starter to clear. Now ive heard from people trying this that the RobbMc mini starters have went to a larger design that touches as well. are there any mini starters that dont touch at all for this setup or am i smashing these headers with a hammer no matter what?

...follow up topic... i heard that the stock z bar on a b body touches as well and wondering how much "hammer work" will have to be done there too? dont really want to go to hydraulic clutch.

thanks in advance,
-Steve

 

[ckessel]

I had to massage mine. One of the reasons I ordered my TTI units uncoated. There were other, non starter, areas to massage even though they were listed for my combo. I used one of my plastic mallets on the offending areas after marking. Used the Powermaster unit thats clockable, found the best overall fit after 4 different settings, massaged as needed.

 

[Steve009]

I had to massage mine. One of the reasons I ordered my TTI units uncoated. There were other, non starter, areas to massage even though they were listed for my combo. I used one of my plastic mallets on the offending areas after marking. Used the Powermaster unit thats clockable, found the best overall fit after 4 different settings, massaged as needed.

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i seem to have decent clearance on the bottom side of the starter. top side is what touches. id rather be close on the bolt vs the body of the starter like mine. worried the thing will cook!

 

[Fran Blacker]

Use wood against header. A regular mopar starter wouldn't fit without major a major beating?

 

[Steve009]

Use wood against header. A regular mopar starter wouldn't fit without major a major beating?

ya that would take a lot of banging for sure.

 

[Lefty71]

You have any pix of new/old style MC/Robb starters?? The older (I assume) were fully clockable 360 degrees and I don't remember mine sticking out at all like your pix show. However, they do tuck in so tight, that you may need to do some block grinding on the "B" engines to fit one at all. But I'm pretty sure the header clearance is much better than that, and that's probably why TTI recommends them.

There were NO Powermaster starters that worked for me.

 

[zyzzyx]

You would think that after 55 years that EVERYONE would know the best header paths? For years we've been using 3D
modeling and we have laser scanners that can give these manufacturers a clear path. For Christ's sake, WeatherTech
laser scans floor boards so their floor mats fit! Sorry for the rant, but we all pay good money for parts that don't fit.
There, I feel better!

 

[RJRENTON]

I had to massage mine. One of the reasons I ordered my TTI units uncoated. There were other, non starter, areas to massage even though they were listed for my combo. I used one of my plastic mallets on the offending areas after marking. Used the Powermaster unit thats clockable, found the best overall fit after 4 different settings, massaged as needed.

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OUCH.......DEFINITELY A TOASTED OR VERY WELL DONE STARTER....
BOB RENTON

 

[Fran Blacker]

Could you add extra flange between head and header without making problem else where?

 

[Steve009]

You would think that after 55 years that EVERYONE would know the best header paths? For years we've been using 3D
modeling and we have laser scanners that can give these manufacturers a clear path. For Christ's sake, WeatherTech
laser scans floor boards so their floor mats fit! Sorry for the rant, but we all pay good money for parts that don't fit.
There, I feel better!

I 100% agree. I had to smash my Doug’s headers all to heck to get them to fit. Paid up and got the TTi and still issues with Z bar and starter. I’ll order the RobbMc starter. Did some measurements and I think I’ll be ok but I have to bend the Z bar or smash the header to clear that for sure.

 

[Steve009]

Could you add extra flange between head and header without making problem else where?

I tried spacing it out but the angle causes other clearance issues. Good thought though and tried it.

 

[Steve009]

You have any pix of new/old style MC/Robb starters?? The older (I assume) were fully clockable 360 degrees and I don't remember mine sticking out at all like your pix show. However, they do tuck in so tight, that you may need to do some block grinding on the "B" engines to fit one at all. But I'm pretty sure the header clearance is much better than that, and that's probably why TTI recommends them.

There were NO Powermaster starters that worked for me.

Apparently the new ones are slightly bigger housings but after some measurements today I just went ahead and pulled the trigger to try it. Z bar is a different story. No easy way out there. Tti makes an adapted bar for A bodies but not b bodies. I’m going to try modifying mine to clear without smacking the header too much with a hammer.

 

[33 IMP]

Ever since seeing engine masters header smash episode, "adjusting" headers doesn't bother me as much as it used to. I DO agree that an almost $1000 set of headers should fit, without having to buy a $300 starter.
On the other hand.....
I don't think I've ever had a set of headers that didn't need adjustment . Currently, a set of old hookers that had to have the collectors lifted with floor jack to get them off the ground (not literally, but close). Number two, I checked fit of the high dollar custom headers, sent em out for coating, and when they came back, they wouldn't fit the new heads with the raised ex ports. Oh well, get out the hammer. Ended up making angled flanges to tuck em closer to the block.
Third set, also custom made, fit good, tight to the floor, under the rollcage down arms, except..... I wanna run a raised port head, and that will make this hit the down bars and the floor. Oh well, I guess no raised ex port heads for me.
For the o.p., I would adjust the headers, and build a heat shield for the starter.... or at least use a heat wrap on the tube that's too close. Or, all of the above.

 

[Steve009]

Ever since seeing engine masters header smash episode, "adjusting" headers doesn't bother me as much as it used to. I DO agree that an almost $1000 set of headers should fit, without having to buy a $300 starter.
On the other hand.....
I don't think I've ever had a set of headers that didn't need adjustment . Currently, a set of old hookers that had to have the collectors lifted with floor jack to get them off the ground (not literally, but close). Number two, I checked fit of the high dollar custom headers, sent em out for coating, and when they came back, they wouldn't fit the new heads with the raised ex ports. Oh well, get out the hammer. Ended up making angled flanges to tuck em closer to the block.
Third set, also custom made, fit good, tight to the floor, under the rollcage down arms, except..... I wanna run a raised port head, and that will make this hit the down bars and the floor. Oh well, I guess no raised ex port heads for me.
For the o.p., I would adjust the headers, and build a heat shield for the starter.... or at least use a heat wrap on the tube that's too close. Or, all of the above.

I’m definitely going to make some sort of heat shield, you are right. Just a shame to pay good money for polished ceramic

 

[Lefty71]

Apparently the new ones are slightly bigger housings but after some measurements today I just went ahead and pulled the trigger to try it.

Awesome!! Post up some pics of the new starter and the install once you get into the thick of it. Yours is the first mention I've seen about the new/old difference.... I have some pix of the old style and install here, IIRC. Maybe we can help some others down the road??

 

[eldubb440]

question for guys running a 440.......is this also an issue for the RB headers?..... thinking the raised block pushes the header outward a bit

 

[eldubb440]

I had headers on a 383 40 years ago with a full size starter...... I do not recall having any issues whatsoever......and I'm sure they were cheap; Hedman, Black Jack, or similar....... so what gives?

 

[Steve009]

Awesome!! Post up some pics of the new starter and the install once you get into the thick of it. Yours is the first mention I've seen about the new/old difference.... I have some pix of the old style and install here, IIRC. Maybe we can help some others down the road??

will do. fingers crossed it works. ill post some pictures of how i handle the z bar as well. think i just need to bend one of the arms

 

[bearman]

Has anybody talked headers with the racers. What do they do and who do they use etc. To have to beat up any header to make it fit is just wrong.

 

[beanhead]

question for guys running a 440.......is this also an issue for the RB headers?..... thinking the raised block pushes the header outward a bit

Not in my case, starter clearance isn't yuge but there's no interference. I have an old powermaster unit on there and I've never had to grind anything or rotate the terminals, with TTIs and Hookers on the car at various times.
The only issue I've run into with my TTIs was a few engines ago, the drag link would rub on the passenger side tube as you got close to full lock so I 'fabricated' a dimple there for clearance. Of course when I switched to a different block I discovered that the engine had wallered-out mounting ears so it was sitting too low. Had that not been the case I would've had plenty of room for the steering!