Mopar cam info, suggestions.

[PRHeads]

As an aside, because I’ve seen this mentioned on a few forums...... that UD Harold designed the XE lobes.

When the XE lobes were designed, UD was going strong. Why would he have designed lobes for the competition?
I was a UD dealer from 1990 until they closed the doors.
After the first XE cam I tried(since I thought they looked good on paper and wanted to try one), I was talking to Harold about them and he was telling me there were spikes in the rate in the lift curve...... and that it wasn’t the way he liked to design a lobe.
I didn’t specifically ask him if he had designed them(since I wouldn’t have expected he was doing lobes for a competitor), but nothing he said led me to believe he had any involvement with those lobes.
Next time I’m talking to Comp I’ll see if I can find out who did them.

Now, Back to your regularly scheduled cam thread.....

 

[Curiousyellow71]

As an aside, because I’ve seen this mentioned on a few forums...... that UD Harold designed the XE lobes.

When the XE lobes were designed, UD was going strong. Why would he have designed lobes for the competition?
I was a UD realer from 1990 until they closed the doors.
After the first XE cam I tried(since I thought they looked good on paper and wanted to try one), I was talking to Harold about them and he was telling me there were spikes in the rate in the lift curve...... and that it wasn’t the way he liked to design a lobe.
I didn’t specifically ask him if he had designed them(since I wouldn’t have expected he was doing lobes for a competitor), but nothing he said led me to believe he had any involvement with those lobes.
Next time I’m talking to Comp I’ll see if I can find out who did them.

Now, Back to your regularly scheduled cam thread.....

Harold worked for comp cams from 77-80 designed the assymetrical cam in 79.
Awesome you talked w Harold. Really like Tim wish I would've gotten to talk to Harold. https://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/17562-question-about-ultradyne-udharold.html
Harold was a cam legend... this thread you can find harold himself talking about his history. Sorry not a mopar thread. But, inspiring to come across his words on paper all the same. Impressive man, glad Tim G. Learned from him to carry on in some way.

 

[PRHeads]

The XE line was def not around when Comp opened the doors...... and Harold left there in 1980.

In his own words......

“1969---Went to work for State of Mississippi as computer operator, rose to be lead operator at CDPA, Central Data Processing Agency.
1972---Began working on cam design program in my spare time.
Dec 15, 1972---Sold 310AP SBC solid to Reed Cams, Georgia, for $125.00.
1973---Made $3000 selling to Reed, Isky, Engle, Norris.
1974---Designed Reed's RxxxULX line of rollers, and a lot more, including Benny Parson's 1975 Daytona 500-winning cam. Also Shirl Greer's TF/FC NHRA National Champion Nitro Funny car cam, designed for Norris, and it was a True Chrysler flat tappet, with .438" lobe lift.
1974---Became General Kinetics' cam designer, worked with people like Bill Jenkins and Jack Roush on the cams for their ProStockers.
1976---Jenkins wins Pro Stock Natinal Championship, with GK doing large-barrel cams.
1977---I start in January with Competion Cams, as their original cam designer. Over the next 3 years, I design them hundreds of cams, including the 268 High Energy. I introduce them to the unsymmetrical cam.
1979---I write them their 1st in-house cam design program. Before that, we shared a program with Cam Dynamics.
1980---After negotiating since late 1976 for some stock ownership in Competition Cams, I leave and start UltraDyne on April 1st, 1980. The 1st month I design the 288/296F5 and the 288/296R6, the 2 most popular cams I ever made.
1981---In September, I hire my 1st employee, Mike O'Neal, who ran my shop, made all my models and masters, etc.
1982---We're running 2 shifts, from 7:00 AM to 12:00 PM. Tim Goolsby comes to work for me, he is Mike's brother-in-law. I also design UltraDyne's first hydraulic cams, such as the 272, the 276, the 288/296H.
From then on until 2000, we all just worked. UltraDyne grossed over $1.2 Million a year from 1990 to 1999.
2000---A number of independent factors began to take their toll---Federal Mogul acquiring my 2 major solid lifter core manufacturers, and their later Chapter 11, Lifter companies disappearring, tremendous cash-flow problems in the end of 2000, initially triggered by the UPS strike---We lost around $50,000 in the strike.
2001---A un-named cam company in Memphis hires 8 of my 12 employees, and 2 more just leave because they think --that's it. Only Tim and Gail are left with me.
2001-2003---UltraDyne is in the Chapter 11 'Death Spiral'. I take a $0 salary for 2002, and pump all my, and my wife's, retirment money into UltraDyne, along with all the equity I could get on my house, etc, etc, etc.
June 2003---Everything is gone, the government locks the doors.
August 2003---I go to work at Lunati, charged with completely re-doing their entire line of cams. Mike is already there, waiting for me, along with Steve Slavik, who worked for me for 13 years (Mike for 19...). Then I meet the corporate world.....
Oct 2004---Lunati introduces the VooDoo cams. And they really work good.....

This has been the line and times of a cam designer, and even with the down sides, it has been the time of my life, and I'm going to stay at it as long as I can.....”

UD was around from 1980-2001....... and they never had any fast rate hyd cams.
The UD hydraulics were smooth, stable, and quiet.

Anyone have some old Comp catalogs kicking around?
Like 80’s 90’s to see when those XE’s started coming into the market?
I started in this business in 1990, and don’t remember that series existing at that time.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Yep you are correct...268 high energy been around a long time..my bad. My oldest comp cam book is in the 90's. Probably could talk to Tim as well on the xe history.

 

[PRHeads]

What year catalog? Are the XE’s in it?

The High Energy lobes were there right from the start....... Magnums too.
I seem to think it was those and the really long race hydraulics that were the only hyd cams they had in the beginning.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

What year catalog? Are the XE’s in it?

The High Energy lobes were there right from the start....... Magnums too.
I seem to think it was those and the really long race hydraulics that were the only hyd cams they had in the beginning.

The Comp book is '95 and XE's are in it. No .904 XE lobe profiles looks like. The ultradyne do not have as much lift as others but they are smooth. I like the ones we've run.
The XE drops the intake like a rock that last little bit. Interesting cam design when you measure it. Seen some go lots of miles and some not. The midrange is impressive though.

 

[PRHeads]

Okay, so they are there in ‘95.
That’s about when I was thinking they came on the scene.

I’d say the first one I tried was like 1998.
I wasn’t at all happy with the noise, and it wasn’t making what I was expecting for power either.
It was my first testing of a 440 6bbl though, and wasn’t sure how much of an impact the 6bbl had on the power.
I was just going to stuff a 484 cam in it to see what happened, but there were none to be had.
I ended up putting in a Crane H302.
More power everywhere........ and quite a bit quieter too.
About 300rpm higher before the onset of the lifters giving out as well.
It was still down overall from what I was expecting to see though.

I’ve never done a swap between a 6bbl and a 4bbl on the dyno....... so I don’t have any numbers on that.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Comp XE.....I think they may be hard to grind. The one we checked the lifter actually dipped below the base circle when the intake closed. Its know wonder they make noise.

Ok
I’d say the first one I tried was like 1998.
I wasn’t at all happy with the noise, and it wasn’t making what I was expecting for power either.
It was my first testing of a 440 6bbl though, and wasn’t sure how much of an impact the 6bbl...
I’ve never done a swap between a 6bbl and a 4bbl on the dyno....... so I don’t have any numbers on that.

Which XE did you try in the 6 pack

 

[PRHeads]

The 284.

Mild Ported big valve 906’s, HS 1.5’s, headers.

More clatter than many solids.

I know it’s a pretty popular cam in a BBM...... but I didn’t care for it in the 6bbl at all.
Looked great on paper though.
I was expecting big things.

 

[33 IMP]

@PRHeads , your in-box is full.

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

FWIW, I have a Voodoo 703 in a 9.5:1 426 (60 thou over 413). Stock convertor, 3.23 SG and 28" tyre. It certainly does not lack torque down low, has a slight lope and still plenty of vacuum (14"-15"). 702 probably a better choice for me too but I wanted a little attitude.

 

[PRHeads]

Came across a discussion from another unhappy XE user:

http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/aggressive-extreme-cams.188048/

Came across this on the Chevelle forum......



Part of an interview with Billy Godbold:

 

[PRHeads]

@PRHeads , your in-box is full.

It’s cleaned out now.

 

[wyrmrider]

Summit cam looks like an old cam dynamics now crane grind not a Detroit White box
but then Crane bought a big Detroit Cam grinder for low cost mass production of his cams, core supply etc
I think all of that has bee resold long ago
Summit cams are cheap
so are the white box cams
you get what you pay for

 

[wyrmrider]

Thanks for the Brookshire history
bout the way I have it
bottom line is Harold said the Ultradyne cams were done with more poly equations and more terms than the Comp
and the Lunati even more
Harold said the Lunati were both more quieter and had more power than the Comps
And he said the Mopar Voodoos were better than the Chevy Voodoos
btw I like the way Rick and Mike Jones design cams better than the way Harold did back then. Too bad he is not still around.
He said he wanted to retire in 2020- didn't make it. Ditto for Crane, Racer Brown
Isky is the last man standing

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Yes, Thanks for the UDharold and Godbold info certainly clears things up. .

 

[PRHeads]

As for the OP’s query.....
Hard to argue with the Crower 271HDP in a combo like that.

In a 440...... it’s one of those cams that “just works”.

 

[PRHeads]

I'm not sure how open you intended this question to be.

I don't want to minimize the importance of the right cam, but, 1) there are probably 100 different cams that would be fine, and probably only a hand full of horse power between any of them, 2) Relative to the rest of the motor, cams are not expensive, and 3) if you don't like the cam, you're only a few hundred dollars and one weekend away from changing it to something else.

However, your piston selection today is critical, and unraveling that choice after the fact is a relatively big and costly deal. What specifically is the piston choice? If this has already been covered, let me know and I'll shut up, and I apologize in advance.

This is really spot on.

 

[wyrmrider]

I've used that Crower 271HDP
Mild Ford or Mopar lobe
271-284@ ? 222-234 486-496
Crowers 222-230 chevy cam is 470-488
you have to go to 226-234 to get 480-495
problem I have with
crower is that they mix White Box cams into the catalog and I had to spend valuable time explaining to customers- so BC buying out of the Catalog- this goes for other mfg also
Notice how Howards identifies the mopar lobes
but..

 

[wyrmrider]

Let me add that we used the Crower with it's 112 LCA when building with HP exhaust manifolds

another example is the 383 with 426 crank and rods and stock ported heads and manifolds we did for a resto superbird 4 speed car
(and yes you could special order anything back then - just put "show car" on the box
Crower ground a cam with 218 @ .050 and .525 lift for the intake

which is why I said that the catalog grind was mild like a mild Engle or MP although obviously better than any of Crower's chevy grinds for a Mopar
I still have the 9th piston from that build that we used for mockup
actually it was the prototype we used to dial in the valve notches before producing the 8 we installed These were step dome for the open chamber heads
The designer had been at Arias but had moved to Ross and the order went with him
Nice guy, Mopar and Motorcycle guy
Married a Russian Mail Order- worked well for awhile- If you're out there PM me