Mopar perf torsion bars ?

[Steverino]

After some front end work, all bushings , ball joints etc, new .092" torsion bars from mopar performance were installed

Before I align it, I'm trying to sort out the ride height, which is giving me a (potential) issue because the lh requires MUCH more adjustment to maintain the front end level side to side

New Rear springs were also installed recently (also mopar performance, hd)

I can attain the ride height, but the extra turns on the lh bolt have the top of the adjuster blade a bit too close to the bottom of the frame rail (less than 1/2"), whereas the rh has plenty of clearance up there

I did check the "L" and "R" are on the corresponding sides, even took the LH out to turn it around (part number stamped on both ends) , tried to re index/"clock" the adjuster blade an extra notch, but not enough room

I guess I could just run it, and if it bottoms (the blade looks like it will contact the bottom of the frame rail before the jounce bumper would), or sags, then maybe I'll need to go to .096" bars ?

btw, car is 69 RR with 440

thanks

 

[oldbee]

First thought is rear anchor rusting out?

 

[Wietse]

Mine has the same issue but on the RH side.
This requires a lot more adjustment to get to the ride height i want to be at, probably caused by all the engine torque lands on that side. (same as the fact the RH rear leaf spring has extra blade(s) )
Just finished a full front end suspension restoration as well.
As i did one side at the time they could not have been mixed up, so that is not the case.
IMO it's just wear and tear and a set of new torsion bars should sort that out, at least that is my plan.
Don't see a reason to up the torsion bar size for this issue, a set of new ones should take care of it.
I am still driving the car with it, the adjuster blade should not hit the frame i think, mine did because the lca bushing was completely worn out which caused less clearance in that corner.

@oldbee: For sure my rear anchor point is in top condition.

 

[Kern Dog]

.92 bars are very thin by today's standards. Unless this is a "OEM Restoration", I'd step it up...WAY up.
I ran 1.0 bars for years with a aluminum headed 440. I currently have 1.15 bars in the car now. No, the ride is not harsh. It is about as firm as our 2015 Challenger R/T.

 

[Steverino]

The torsion bar anchors were replaced with the crossmember during other body repairs

I can see a witness mark from where the rh adjuster had previously contacted/dented the under side of the frame rail on that side

my lower control arm bushings were quite worn

I wanted the ride height to be close to factory, maybe a tad higher, but had stock 383 (.089") bars in before, and I am pretty sure I remember the adjuster bolts being fairly close in length with the front end level, unlike they are now, with the front level, the lh bolt is at least a half to three quarters of an inch further in than the bolt on the rh side

If it doesn't settle out or ride well, maybe I'll have to try another set of (larger) bars

 

[Wietse]

Strange that a set of new bars are having this issue.
Did you already drive the car and let it settle?
Even with my old ones i noticed the height does change after a drive, and yes, i did bounce the car by hand.

Another thing to notice, make sure the pivot shaft nuts are still "loose" while adjusting ride height, this allows the pivot pin and LCA bushing to settle in a "neutral" position at the ride height and prevents over stretching the rubber bushing.
I assume this can also cause more tension that requires to be compensated for with the torsion bar.

 

[miller]

Are you measuring ride height correctly??

Two measurements, for each side. Wheels on the ground. One from bottom of lower ball joint, to the ground. Two from the pivot point on the LCA, to the ground. Difference is the ride height.

Only asking because...took mine to an alignment shop. The guy started trying to measure from the top of the tire, to bottom of the wheel opening. Asked him what the hell he was doing! Had to teach...

 

[Steverino]

Good thoughts....I did loosen both lca pivot nuts while tampering with this adjustment
It has nor driven on the road, but settling does occur just pulling in/out of garage, and the amount of settling (maybe 1/4-1/2" at the wheelwell lip) seems consistent from side to side after being up on lift, down and rolling a bit

The area to measure is a good question, as the steering arm lowest point (bottom of ball joint) is clear, but the manual states measurement A "from the bottom of one of the adjusting blades", which is a bit confusing/hard to see in the picture, so I'm measuring from the bottom of the pivot/adjuster that the torsion bar slides into, so it looks correct ?

In any case, I am admittedly trying to stay near the higher end of the spec (I'm trying to stay away from a lowered/squatting front end stance), in order to keep the car close to level looking front to back,so my ride height goal is about 2" measured at control arm (spec is 1 7/8" +/- 1/8")

It is not that the front end is continuing to settle or lower, nor is it that I'm unable to attain the ride height I'm looking for, but only that the rh adjusting blade/bolt required much less load to get there. I know they don't need to be exactly even, but the adjusting bolt for the lh is threaded in a good 3/4" further than the rh, and it just doesn't seem quite right.

I did recheck my receipt, and the bars were actually "158", supposedly the .096" mopar perf

I'm going to recheck the stamping on the end of the bars, just to be sure

Thanks for the tips and replies

 

[Wietse]

The inner measurement is from the bottom of the adjuster blade, the rounding in between the 2 cheeks of the LCA to the floor.
Going for original height is quite high for my liking, but everyone has their own preferences, mine is set around 7/8".
I am currently working on the rear end suspension replacement and probably the rear will come up quite a bit after completion so in that case the front needs to be raised again as well.
I agree with disliking the stance where it appears the front end just fell through the torsion bars.

Where did you buy these torsion bars? Maybe worth sending an email and ask if they have any suggestions to solve this, or exchange for another set?

Regarding the settling in: I did drive it and took a bunch of long speed bumps to bounce the car, after coming back it changed again so it's worth trying to drive it.
I came back and found the car tilted to 1 side

 

[Kern Dog]

Are you measuring ride height correctly??

Two measurements, for each side. Wheels on the ground. One from bottom of lower ball joint, to the ground. Two from the pivot point on the LCA, to the ground. Difference is the ride height.

Only asking because...took mine to an alignment shop. The guy started trying to measure from the top of the tire, to bottom of the wheel opening. Asked him what the hell he was doing! Had to teach...

How is that method bad? It shows the reveal of the tire VS the body. What would look worse....A car that is level and without rake but differing gaps atop the tires OR even gaps but the car is 3/8" out of level in 117" ? Being in construction, we aim to the middle if both cannot be achieved.
If the door opening cannot be made plumb and level, make the trim even so the reveal looks like it is.
The factory method is important but remember that these cars came with skinny tires sunk deep in the opening. Measuring to the top of the wheel opening isn't as simple.
Me? I match the front wheel opening to the ground and the rear to the ground, always with a rake to the front. I also check at the rocker panel to the ground. An unwrecked, unrusted car will still have some variance since these were not built using space age tech!

 

[miller]

How is that method bad? It shows the reveal of the tire VS the body.

Didn't say it was bad.
Though it is setting the spring tension on the bars, for what's on the car.
If your method is good for you, go for it. If suspension is in good shape, you get what you get.

Besides...was just pointing out what's in the book.

 

[Wietse]

If you set ride height as per the book, how could you end up with a difference between tire and body?
Due to difference between fender installation/height/alignment?
Never checked or measured for any differences but i can understand there could be differences, although should be very small right?

 

[Steverino]

The funny thing about buying them, was I bought them over a year ago, and through my workplace (I work at a Chrysler dealer) which made for an easy purchase , although I would probably get more customer service/support if I had bought through summit !

I am going to drive it a little and see how much it settles before "panicking" any further

I did also change the rear springs at the same time, and I'm not sure how much that may be playing into the equation ?
Do the OE HD rear springs (Mopar performance) typically sit any higher on either side ?
That could factor into why I'm cranking the LH torsion bar adjuster so far to keep things level

I would imagine that the OE type rears are designed to remain level even though they have different number of leaves/half leaves for each side

Hopefully it all pans out. I do have the height set at close to 2" measuring at the control arm, but am figuring that it will lower a bit as it settles.
I usually monitor the settling and side to side difference by keeping an eye on the fender opening to ground

I was just hoping that the adjusting bolts would be closer to evenly turned (LH is about 3/4" further in than the RH) in to keep things level, but changing both front and rear at the same time may be complicating things

 

[miller]

Do the OE HD rear springs (Mopar performance) typically sit any higher on either side ?

I can't tell you, on those HD springs...do they have the same number of leafs? If so, yeah, should be fairly even.

On my 64, I changed everything on the suspension. Later (67) rear, SS springs, that have 6/7 leafs, 7 on the pass side. A little higher on that side, until things get settled in.
I, too, set my ride height at 2", mostly for the added weight from the 440. Results are, car sits pretty much level, side to side.
Front tires to wheel opening about the same, too, for what that's worth.

Read through your service manual, if you have one. Adjusting the front suspension, says ride height is done first, before anything else. Sorry, if you already know all this mess.

 

[Wietse]

Just working in my rear suspension as well, the R/H side (passenger side) has 1 extra leaf on the bottom, short one.
This is to compensate for the torque of the drivetrain coming onto that side.

They say, with new leafs the R/H side sits higher at the rear end...will find out in 1 hour or so it that is true.

 

[Steverino]

Yes I am hoping to have this ride height business all sorted before bringing it to align it on the machine at work

My rears are supposed to be an OE type copy (mopar performance brand) of the hemi/440 rears , 6 leaves on LH and 5 plus 2 additional front half-leaves on the RH

I was concerned that the rear was going to be significantly higher, as I'm pretty certain that the 4 leaf springs (std for my 383 built car) that I removed were the originals....and I didn't measure beforehand, but also put the new 15" wheels and tires on in place of the original 14" magnum 500. The end result was that the rear did not really raise up at all (which was fine by me), and the 15" wheels with redlines really fill the wheelwells....so it does look factory (to me anyway)

I'm curious if when the cars were new with the additional RH side half leaves, if they had any noticeable "lean" ? It would seem that the engineers went to some extent to be sure that things were pretty well presented (probably level) even though the extra half leaves must soak up some additional wind-up force

 

[Wietse]

Well my car just came off the jack stands, but i do not see any significant difference between left and right on the rear.
Think the extra leaf only "works" when the spring is compressed, then it would provide extra tension.
Spring function starts with the longest section and works its way down to the smallest one.

 

[Steverino]

To update, I did get this car aligned the other night at work.
The ride height hasn't settled any further, and is where I wanted it (maybe 1/8" higher on the LH side)
The top of the LH adjusting blade has much less clearance to the bottom of the frame rail than the RH

It did contact the bottom of the frame once on a hard dip turning to the right while driving

The ride is very good, but if it continues to be an issue my next step is going to be to try another LH .096" bar if I can borrow one from someone nearby just as a test (or even if I can locate my old .092" original from the body shop that swapped them when the k frame was reinstalled)

Thanks

 

[miller]

The top of the LH adjusting blade has much less clearance to the bottom of the frame rail than the RH

How much difference? Just curious.

 

[WileERobby]

My question is, when you installed them, was your suspension loose ? Also, it's best to insert the bar in the arm before you bolt either the arm into the spindle/steer arm or both up to the upper ball joint. You can clock/index the bar much easier that way with the lower arm all the way down.