Mopar perf torsion bars ?

[bearman]

thank you all for the inputs and thoughts as i am storing all this so when i get to that point i have some great info. thanks folks

 

[Steverino]

I've got over an inch of clearance between RH adjusting blade and bottom of frame rail, but probably only 1/2-3/4" between LH adj blade and bottom of frame rail

I did have suspension loose when adjusting height, and again loosened to lower the lca and remove and install the LH bar a couple of times. Not enough room to "clock" the adj blade another notch, and I think that would be a bit too far even if I could

The torsion sockets in the crossmember appear to be similarly/correctly aligned (RH vs LH)

I do notice that the LH bar sits further forward (maybe 1/4" at most) than the RH

I suppose I may be able to gain enough to clock the adj blade a notch if I remove more (disconnect upper control arm or lower) but it would seem that the bar would be under tension or need to be tensioned just to get adjusting bolt into the threads

I guess that brings up a good question.....is it possible to have the adjusting blade incorrectly indexed/clocked to the rear socket ?

I didn't see anything particular in the shop manual about lining the two sockets up in any way, but then again I did not install these bars initially, I rebuilt the kframe bushings etc and brought back to body shop who installed the bars so the car could be rolled around

I keep removing the jounce bumper on the bottom of the upper control arm, but am not certain it is actually bottoming before trying to engage the bar/adjusting blade...it just seems that one whole notch may be a bit too far ? but anything is possible, especially when more than one person is/has been working on the car

thanks

 

[miller]

is it possible to have the adjusting blade incorrectly indexed/clocked to the rear socket ?

To be honest, never have tried to see. Don't know if it helps, but how I've always put bars in...

Of course, the adjuster bolts need to be backed out, until just the 'tip' of the bolt is exposed on the top, with full thread engaged.
Tip will be about 1/2". LCA lowered as far as it will go. Sometimes even removing the upper bumper, to get more drop.
The adjuster arm your mentioning, is also part of the hex, the bar goes into. Push the arm down, until it contacts the adjuster bolt tip. In that position, each torsion bar should pretty much line up, and go in. Grease each end of the bars, and usually takes some tapping with a plastic hammer, far enough to get the wire keepers in place.
You 'might' have to raise the adjuster arm a little, just to line up the hexes, but shouldn't be much.

R (pass side)/L (driver side)

 

[Steverino]

To be honest, never have tried to see. Don't know if it helps, but how I've always put bars in...

Of course, the adjuster bolts need to be backed out, until just the 'tip' of the bolt is exposed on the top, with full thread engaged.
Tip will be about 1/2". LCA lowered as far as it will go. Sometimes even removing the upper bumper, to get more drop.
The adjuster arm your mentioning, is also part of the hex, the bar goes into. Push the arm down, until it contacts the adjuster bolt tip. In that position, each torsion bar should pretty much line up, and go in. Grease each end of the bars, and usually takes some tapping with a plastic hammer, far enough to get the wire keepers in place.
You 'might' have to raise the adjuster arm a little, just to line up the hexes, but shouldn't be much.

R (pass side)/L (driver side)

This is pretty much exactly how I've been doing it (LH in/out/in several times)
The service manual says to remove that stop bumper under the upper control arm, but I'm not really seeing it hang down that far so that the bumper would be in the way

I may have to remove the RH side just to compare the lowest clocking position of the adjuster blade

Actually , I think if I remove the bar, "set" the blade back to where it is now (too close to frame) and turn it to match the RH frame gap, I should be able to tell if theres any possible way that the LH could be off one hex notch by measuring the swing in between the two positions

I'm still trying to find a spare bar or a pair locally to put in as a test, but if I can't come up with anything I may have to bite the bullet and order another pair (from summit this time)

 

[miller]

Hmmm...trying to think outside the box. Any chance you have two of the same side torsion bars?? Are they marked R and L?
When their out of the car, you can lay them on a bench, put the same end hexes 'flat' on the bench. The opposite ends will be slightly twisted, each one, opposite directions.

 

[Steverino]

Hmmm...trying to think outside the box. Any chance you have two of the same side torsion bars?? Are they marked R and L?
When their out of the car, you can lay them on a bench, put the same end hexes 'flat' on the bench. The opposite ends will be slightly twisted, each one, opposite directions.

They are marked yes 784R and 785L....I could actually change the title of thread (if possible) to just "Ride Height Setting Issue"

I actually borrowed a pair of orig bars (.089"), just to rule out the possibility of defect with my new (2 yr old) Mopar Perf .096" bars
With the .089" bars, the issue is the same, much more thread required on lh adj bolt to come even close to level with rh (after moving car back and forth, the lh side remained 1" lower than right)

I even swapped in my old leaf springs to rule out anything there, and no change so put the mopar perf hd springs back in

I do notice that with bars on flat ground (both sets side by side), one end sits on flat of hex, and one end sits fairly straight up on a point, this was consistent with all four bars

I was able to get a clear photo of an orig crossmemnber from a 68 charger, and my sockets in the torsion bar crossmemeber appear to both be lined up correctly (points at 6 and 12), also confirmed this on a friends e body

One strange thing, I was able to get the bars to swap side to side easily, but didn't load them at all, only to test the movement in the sockets, which is where I'm focused on now

With correct bars in place (tried with both sets), the bars go in with adj blade just at the top of the little window in the arm that holds the adjuster block, then before putting bolts back in, I can push the RH adjuster blade up maybe 1/4" just taking up slack in bar sockets, but the LH side goes up further closer to 3/4". So it's looking to me like the socket in the adjuster blade must be worn somewhat allowing the extra movement. But my adjuster blade is already too high just pushing up with screwdriver, so with no load, I already have about 3/4" difference left to right

So at minimum I've ruled out the bars, and I know there is some built in space/slack in the sockets for ease of service, but with no load, my adjuster blade is up too far already

My next step (since I don't want tubular lower arms) is to post a WTB for a LH lca, it looks like I'll need to try one (even though it will be used), I'll have to hope to get lucky !

I'll keep updating
Thanks for inputs

 

[miller]

So it's looking to me like the socket in the adjuster blade must be worn somewhat allowing the extra movement.

Are we havin' fun, yet? Yeah, fooling with an old car, can be a deal. Used parts, have to be looked at hard.

I know it's easier to look at, with the part in your hand, but might try to compare the line up of the arm, against a flat in the hex. Never seen one broke, or even bent, but anything's possible. I'll toss in, for kicks, how about the adjuster bolts themselves? Same length?

 

[Steverino]

Are we havin' fun, yet? Yeah, fooling with an old car, can be a deal. Used parts, have to be looked at hard.

I know it's easier to look at, with the part in your hand, but might try to compare the line up of the arm, against a flat in the hex. Never seen one broke, or even bent, but anything's possible. I'll toss in, for kicks, how about the adjuster bolts themselves? Same length?

fun for hours for sure !
I will say , this being my first mopar/torsion bar susp setup, I was excited about the fine tuneability of the ride height, because my last gm a body gave me similar ride height fits (getting the front coils right, too high, too low, new springs ,cutting down slightly to adjust), but if I had that set up on this, I would've been able to swap coils and know the answer already !

Anywa, yes, the adj bolts and blocks are orig but work well, bit worn /shiny in the groves., but I've been able to swap them around so ok there

I'm extremely leary of expecting a used/possibly "shiny" but abused part being the "ultimate answer"

But I'm attempting to borrow one (from someone who changed k frame to tubular and coil over set up)

If I can obtain and swap that one in, maybe I'll have more info at least

I really can't envision the adjuster blade bending or wearing except inside the hex possibly it was heavily rusted before it went to be blasted and powder coated ?

I did notice the rh bar only goes into adjuster until the clip seats at rear, maybe 1/16" more, whereas the lh bar goes in about a 1/4" noticeably farther (with either/any bar in the lh adjuster socket), I'm thinking there's extra wear inside there
fingers crossed !

 

[WileERobby]

If you didn't remove the stop bumper, you didn't lower the arm enough for the t bar to clock enough. Period. You have to get the LCA clocked lower, case closed.

 

[Steverino]

If you didn't remove the stop bumper, you didn't lower the arm enough for the t bar to clock enough. Period. You have to get the LCA clocked lower, case closed.

Yup stop bumpers removed

Have you been able to change the clocking position of the adjuster related to the bar ? I don't think so

I can tell you that there is only one clocking position that will accept the adjuster bolt, believe me, I've had it disassembled more than a few times...but in case you're wondering (because I tried with the bar just sitting next to the adjuster for alignment purpose), that the next hex position down puts the adjuster blade bolt pocket BELOW the window for the adjuster bolt nut/bracket so the window is blocked and the bolt and bracket/nut can not even be installed with the bar clocked this way, and the other way (up) one hex pretty much touches the frame before getting the bar inserted....so that question is answered ! They really do only fit one hex in the adjuster

So the bars only go in one way for reference (I'm pretty sure someone mentioned that already, but seeing/trying has made a believer of me at least)

 

[miller]

Think others have said, it doesn't matter which end of the bars go toward the rear. Just habit, I put #s at the rear.
The 'on the bench' bit, same end flats down, the far ends should show opposite clocking. Not the same. Not a tip straight up and down. Should be easy to see to different bars.

 

[Steverino]

Think others have said, it doesn't matter which end of the bars go toward the rear. Just habit, I put #s at the rear.
The 'on the bench' bit, same end flats down, the far ends should show opposite clocking. Not the same. Not a tip straight up and down. Should be easy to see to different bars.

I had the two sets repro .096" and borrowed orig .089", on the floor, nothing jumped out as being different, but they appeared by eye to me to be all four just about the same but I wasn't right on the floor, maybe it would be clearer up the bench I can look at them again tonight if clear enough bench space

Seems funny that the bars (both sets) will fit left or right (with no load) into sockets

Incidentally, my mopar perf .096" bars have same stamp 784R and 785L along with another (H1Y or something) on both ends...not sure about the orig bars, but the fellow I borrowed them from marked the front when he removed them from the vehicle maybe they only have numbers on the rear

 

[miller]

Seems funny that the bars (both sets) will fit left or right (with no load) into sockets

Later bars? Latest year set I've put in was 69s. Could be wrong, but what your saying, if both arms/adjuster bolts/front hex receivers are sitting the same, though opposite...only that side bar should go in.

I've installed four, maybe five, sets of bars through the years. The far ends of the bars, always opposite, and different angles.
Guess I'd have to see 'em...(I'll keep one eye closed!).

 

[Steverino]

Later bars? Latest year set I've put in was 69s. Could be wrong, but what your saying, if both arms/adjuster bolts/front hex receivers are sitting the same, though opposite...only that side bar should go in.

I've installed four, maybe five, sets of bars through the years. The far ends of the bars, always opposite, and different angles.
Guess I'd have to see 'em...(I'll keep one eye closed!).

Not certain what the .089" bars were from (the fellow has all e bodies for the most part) , but correct length so it would seam they're from a b or e body.
But with both sets, either right or left slides right into the opposite side adjuster
I was only doing that as a test to how much wear might be inside the lh adjuster socket

But with no bars installed, after sliding them out (front wheels hanging down, upper ar bumpers removed), both sides adjuster hexes have a flat on the bottom (parallel to the ground). Of course the adjusters can be moved slightly, but they don't need to in order to accept either bar (even swapped left to right)

I've got a line on a control arm to borrow so that's the next step, but having the extra set of bars was a big help to rule them out

 

[Steverino]

Well, the LCA is ruled out I'd say
The borrowed unit (from E body) sets just the same as the one I removed
With an extra 1/2" of adjustment on the lh bolt, the car still sits close to a full inch lower on the left....still at the drawing board, but running out of parts to change/try ?

I'm rethinking the possibility of needing a larger bar ? I mean, I know the 440 is heavy, but not on one side ! Anyway, maybe with a larger bar I can at least maintain some distance between the adjuster blade and the frame rail

It's possible that I'm expecting a bit too much adjustment out of the .096" bars, even though the rh side has absolutely no issues maintaining height with the bolt not threaded so far up into the control arm

 

[oldbee]

It’s just occurring to me that maybe(?) the body is out of plumb? Just an idea.

 

[miller]

If I had an extra set laying around, I'd take a pic...but, I don't. Might not matter, anyway. Did a search, looking for a pic, only thing found was those perf bars, showing the hex points down, both the same. Guess Ma Mopar changed things up.

LCA hex receiver, just so you know, are usually a little loose fit. Once the adjustment is made, it's easy to see the loose fit, by the different hex angles...normal...it's the twisting action, that's doing the job.
Unless you can see actual damage to your LCA, there's a good chance it's okay.

Sorry couldn't help more.

 

[Wietse]

It’s just occurring to me that maybe(?) the body is out of plumb? Just an idea.

I am thinking same, my adjusters are also not equally adjusted but on my '69 Coronet i need to adjust more on the Left Hand side.
My guess is that this is caused by engine torque at hard launches putting extra stress on the L/H side causing it to sag due to age?
But Steverino has an issue on the R/H side...my theory does not apply on his case. (Unless his engine rotates the other way )

 

[Kern Dog]

It may be different in other places but here, WE call the drivers side the LEFT side, the engine cylinders are 1-3-5-7. The RIGHT side has the distributor on big blocks and the oil filter on small blocks, 2-4-6-8 cylinders too.
This can be troublesome because many people refer to what side they are seeing when standing in FRONT of the car.

 

[Wietse]

Sorry, i wrote that the wrong way around in my previous post. It indeed needs to be looked at from the driver seat.
L/H= Driver side
R/H= Passenger side

Mine is sagging on R/H side, which imo could be caused by engine torque landing on that side, but Steverino has the issue on the L/H side for whatever reasons.
If nothing else is out of place, could it not be just a difference between each individual torsion bar? Like from manufacturing?
Not every piece of metal will be the same i guess, although they must be trying their best on that.