Need 8 3/4 help; axle end play

[70chall440]

I need a sanity check here because I don't do these all that often; the story is that I am working on a 69 Belvedere wagon and as a part of my overall effort I had to remove the axles and swap out the 3rd member. I ended up putting new studs in both axles and new seals into the rearend housing. I reinstalled the axles and went to adjust the end ply by the manual, however with the adjuster turned all the way out, there is no movement in the axles left and right. They will rotate and are not bound up, but also there isn't any movement left or right.

Supposedly new bearings were installed some time ago along with new seals, however the seals were not installed correctly and the left one was running on the bearing retainer which makes me believe that the bearings and/or retainers are not seated correctly, thus having eliminated the end play but again, I don't do this enough to say for sure.

I would appreciate any thoughts or advice.

 

[aeon280]

So first thing to check is do you have Green bearings or factory tapered bearings. If the bearings were replaced there is a good chance that they were replaced with Green Bearings and they no longer need to be adjusted.

 

[70chall440]

Definitely tapered bearings

 

[aeon280]

Ok. When you installed the third member did you ensure that the spacer bushing was in there in between the axles. If its not there than you would not be able to adjust the end play because the axles are not contacting one another.

 

[70chall440]

To be honest I did not, however the axles should still move in and out which they do not.

 

[70chall440]

Are you talking about the thrust block?

 

[aeon280]

Are you talking about the thrust block?

Yes the thrust block. Without it you essentially would be eliminating any play the bearing has so once you tighten the bolts on the retainer you would not be able to move the axle because they are bottomed out on the bearing race.

 

[70chall440]

Well, I guess I will take the axles back out and look. If the thrust block is present I should not be able to look through the housing out the other side.

 

[4mulas]

Well, I guess I will take the axles back out and look. If the thrust block is present I should not be able to look through the housing out the other side.

That’s right

 

[Cranky]

Yes the thrust block. Without it you essentially would be eliminating any play the bearing has so once you tighten the bolts on the retainer you would not be able to move the axle because they are bottomed out on the bearing race.

That isn't correct. Without anything for the axles to butt against, the axles will be allowed to actually move deeper into the housing while the bearing race stays in place in the housing. Take a look at how the bearings are installed on the axles and it will then make sense....

 

[R/T Boy 67]

If the seals are not installed deep enough or are too thick(wrong seals) they could possibly interfere with the bearing lock rings and cause your problem.

 

[Cranky]

I need a sanity check here because I don't do these all that often; the story is that I am working on a 69 Belvedere wagon and as a part of my overall effort I had to remove the axles and swap out the 3rd member. I ended up putting new studs in both axles and new seals into the rearend housing. I reinstalled the axles and went to adjust the end ply by the manual, however with the adjuster turned all the way out, there is no movement in the axles left and right. They will rotate and are not bound up, but also there isn't any movement left or right.

Supposedly new bearings were installed some time ago along with new seals, however the seals were not installed correctly and the left one was running on the bearing retainer which makes me believe that the bearings and/or retainers are not seated correctly, thus having eliminated the end play but again, I don't do this enough to say for sure.

I would appreciate any thoughts or advice.

Imo, you need to pull the axles out and make sure the seals, bearings etc were installed correctly. Also wouldn't hurt to measure the length....assuming the housing is stock for the car.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Did you have any trouble getting axles seated in housing? Meaning put nuts on axle flanges to pull flanges against backing plates? Do you have a cone or clutch sure-grip? I had a problem like yours, put a cone sure-grip in my 66 open rear. I had a clutch sure-grip, removed cone one and put clutch SG in. I was compressing springs in cone SG. Never looked to figure out why. Looked to see if splines were lined up in cone SG, seemed ok.

 

[khryslerkid]

First thing I would do is make sure both seals are seated. You could put your finger in the hole "" and feel for the ridge behind the seal. If you feel one, it needs to go in a little further.

You can look into the axle tube with a strong pen light and see if the "thrust buttons" are still in the thrust block. Should look like this...

If it looks like this they are missing...

These are the buttons the axle ends rest against in order to adjust the taypered bearings.

The thrust block is always in there.

 

[70chall440]

Thanks for all of the replies and information. Let me answer some of the questions;

- yes the seals are correctly seated, I installed them yesterday and stick my finger in there and felt the ridge/stop that the seal pushes up against (yes, you can just barely feel it because the edges of the seal curve up)

- these are stock axles in a stock housing, I am 100% sure these axles came out of this housing and that both are original to this car.

- I am not sure if the bearings/retainers are seated correctly, I did look at them but got distracted and forgot about it and then installed the axles. That said, I do know that the outer race can move enough to expose about 1/4 of the bearing, meaning that the races move back and forth (in and out if you like). This makes me think that they are not seated correctly.

- I do not know if the thrust buttons or block are present, I will remove the axles and check.

- The axles went in fine, I have installed and removed them many times as a part of the rear disc brake installation.

I am definitely leaning towards the bearings/retainers not being seated correctly for at least a part of the problem. I looked at the manual and it says "until correctly seated", my question is this, do the retainers go up against the bearing or is there a gap?

 

[khryslerkid]

The axles went in fine, I have installed and removed them many times as a part of the rear disc brake installation.

Are you doing a disc brake conversion on this car?

If you are, most applications want you to use the "Green Bearing".

 

[70chall440]

Yes, I have already done the disc brake conversion, however I am not using a kit that requires Green bearings, I made my own brackets and adapted some parts/pieces from a kit that the owner provided. My brackets are welded to the housing and do not affect the bearings at all. I built a similar system for my Cuda some time ago but sourced different calipers than what is being used on this car.

All of this said, the owner of the vehicle does not want to use Green Bearings and is very adamant about it (old school Mopar guy). Given that the new brackets are welded to the housing, it has no effect on the bearing end play.

I will disassemble it and check, I'd do it today but I just had 2 teeth pulled and I am taking a little easy at the moment.

 

[oldkimmer]

If ur brackets are not sandwiched between the housing and the Axle flange u probably won’t have any play in the axles as u lost the thickness of the backing plates and the shims. U would need green bearings then. Some pics would go along way in diagnosing ur problem. Kim

 

[R/T Boy 67]

oldkimmer has a good point. Most disc brake kits come with spacers the same thickness as the backing plates( dr diff kits mounting brackets are the right thickness and just replace the backing plates). You need the spacers to make everything correct. Cutting the centers out of the backing plates will work. Tapered bearings are no problem.

 

[70chall440]

Alright, I pulled the axles and looked in. I cannot tell if the buttons are there or not, however I did figure out why I had no adjustment... I had the adjuster turned too far out.