Need advice on my 440

[Wietse]

Oh well, good that there is rtv in place, leaks between valley pan and intake only causes false air/lean mixture situation and that does not cause smoke.
Where is the oil located that you observed? In the intake port of cylinder #8?
Then you might be right saying there is 1 (or more) valve stem seals leaking, maybe came out of place?

Guess that would be hard to inspect with the valve springs on though..

 

[Runner71]

Oh well, good that there is rtv in place, leaks between valley pan and intake only causes false air/lean mixture situation and that does not cause smoke.
Where is the oil located that you observed? In the intake port of cylinder #8?
Then you might be right saying there is 1 (or more) valve stem seals leaking, maybe came out of place?

Guess that would be hard to inspect with the valve springs on though..

When i popped the intake off the pan there was some gas mixed with oil around inside port, also the intake valve seems to have a lot off grease around it from the topside off it, is there a way to see if the seal is bad? Mean if i just pressure test it from the plug hole it wouldnt let me know if the seal is bad, just lets me know that the valves seated correctly? I take the springs off in a couple a minutes with air holding the valves up. I mean what else could it be? If the pan didnt seal as it should then ive would have notice something from topside? Or can it still creap from the backside into the intake? Hmm

And the smoke im talking about its like a fat 2stroke mixured, just noticed when my kid was putting some laps in

 

[Wietse]

If that inlet, guess #8 cylinder (with the greasy plug), looks more greasy then the rest you might be on to something.
Either valve stem seal or from the valley pan.
If you go to the extend of removing the valve springs anyway, just remove the seal and inspect the seal and seat on the valve guide for damage.
Then install a new seal, if there is nothing obviously wrong guess that is the best you could do.
If that does not solve it, i would focus on the valley pan.

Good to know it is an oily residue in the exhaust, wherever it leaks some oil is better then leaking coolant which could mean a head gasket or crack somewhere.

 

[BSB67]

When you took of the I take, if there is any oilyness in the head 6 and 8 runners, its the valley pan leaking like Lew said. If they are not leaking, they will be bone dry.

It will not take much miss alignment in intake/head angles to cause a leak. The valley pan has no give. Sealants seem to be everyone's choice, but they never worked for me.

 

[khryslerkid]

How much was milled off of those heads to make them 79cc? (You can measure the block on the lower side. Factory measurement is normally 1")

Here's a uncut 452

Lots of machining involved to make things fit when taking that much off a set of heads. The ends of the block where the valley pan seals can hold the manifold up if it wasn't machined.

 

[BSB67]

How much was milled off of those heads to make them 79cc? (You can measure the block on the lower side. Factory measurement is normally 1")

Lots of machining involved to make things fit when taking that much off a set of heads. The ends of the block where the valley pan seals can hold the manifold up if it wasn't machined.

Yup.

 

[Runner71]

Well, when i layed the manifold on first time the bolts and holes lined up, but i got a feeler gauge in between there but alot less then what the pan is, but i might need a real gasket for it to hold. But the RTV looks like it sealed on picture is 6 and 8 intake. But it looks like the valve seal has come off, gonna take spring off and look its kinda hard to see with dubbel springs on, but im tripple checking everything again so i appreicate all the ideas so i can recheck it all

 

[BSB67]

The pan thickness has nothing to do with whether the gap is to big or not. It will leak badly with far less misalignment than the thickness of the gasket.

 

[Runner71]

The pan thickness has nothing to do with whether the gap is to big or not. It will leak badly with far less misalignment than the thickness of the gasket.

Ok, good to know! then ill go for a gasket then, but heres something else, before i changed the piston rings the car had good bottom torque and wheel spin the hole first gear and now it doesnt feel the same, i swapped the timing chain and gear cuz the dowel pin on the cam broke so i fixed that and got a new in. Thing is, didnt have space for the degree wheel cuz the k frame. how big of a difference can the gear and chain make? Or my timing and carb is more off then before i have tweaked it more after and could be off the sweet spot. With the old gear i was like 1 degree advance from centerline so im thinking mayby im a tooth of or something and retarded..things in my mind, should i get as hold off a smaller degree wheel or just get the car together and try find the timing and carb again..hmm

 

[wyrmrider]

viton stem seals, you said guides were ok?

 

[BSB67]

Ok, good to know! then ill go for a gasket then, but heres something else, before i changed the piston rings the car had good bottom torque and wheel spin the hole first gear and now it doesnt feel the same, i swapped the timing chain and gear cuz the dowel pin on the cam broke so i fixed that and got a new in. Thing is, didnt have space for the degree wheel cuz the k frame. how big of a difference can the gear and chain make? Or my timing and carb is more off then before i have tweaked it more after and could be off the sweet spot. With the old gear i was like 1 degree advance from centerline so im thinking mayby im a tooth of or something and retarded..things in my mind, should i get as hold off a smaller degree wheel or just get the car together and try find the timing and carb again..hmm

Wait a minute. You need to tell us the whole story. Start with whatever high level history there is, how it ran before you took it apart, the root cause for the cam dowel to shear, what all you did in putting it back together and what exactly was checked. What cam, type of lifters and valve train. Also, you need to do a cylinder cranking pressure test on all cylinders.

 

[Runner71]

Wait a minute. You need to tell us the whole story. Start with whatever high level history there is, how it ran before you took it apart, the root cause for the cam dowel to shear, what all you did in putting it back together and what exactly was checked. What cam, type of lifters and valve train. Also, you need to do a cylinder cranking pressure test on all cylinders.

Really dont know why the dowel pin broke, cambolt was torque to spec, but its a single bolt cam so the gear was just spinning around, bend one pushrod. So ive changed that and the lifter just incase. Think its just really bad luck, But when i took it of i damaged one tooth on the upper gear( cam gear itself ) so bought a new set, couldnt get the degree wheel back on to check it becuse of the k frame ( engine in the car ). When i first installed the cam ( Whiplash, engine on stand ) i was 1 degree off so i did nothing and installed it. The second time, now with the new timing set i just put it right back in without checking the gear. And it was not the same brand, turns out im 3 degrees retarded with the new set, I checked everything tonight and degreed the cam in the right way ( Got a smaller degree wheel that clears ).. So that would probably solve the curve change in the car. Havent had room to make a new pressure test yet, but will do as soon as everything works as it should. No coolant in the oil and no oil in the coolant, as i removed the radiator for more space. So i guess the "2 stroke smoke" has to do with either the valleypan not sealed correctly or the valve stem seals but i cant see anything suspect on the seals. Before i swapped the piston rings i had almost 9.5bar across all cylinders. So ive learned, ( the hard way ) CHECK every part thats go inside the engine everytime but hey, its a learning curve for me at least. The engine is pretty much stock except the big job on the heads 79cc, milled and ported for some more cylinder pressure, 2 plane intake 750 street demon, TTI headers and now new rings because off the heavenly smoke i experienced earlier. Wich got a way, at first with the new piston rings, Second drive i had some smoke come out of the passenger side exhaust - condensation smoke is one thing, but when the car is at operation temp in warm weather it gets to me.

Ive done all the work myself except the milling and porting on the heads, so if i screwed something else up its all on me

 

[BSB67]

Really dont know why the dowel pin broke, cambolt was torque to spec, but its a single bolt cam so the gear was just spinning around, bend one pushrod. So ive changed that and the lifter just incase. Think its just really bad luck, But when i took it of i damaged one tooth on the upper gear( cam gear itself ) so bought a new set, couldnt get the degree wheel back on to check it becuse of the k frame ( engine in the car ). When i first installed the cam ( Whiplash, engine on stand ) i was 1 degree off so i did nothing and installed it. The second time, now with the new timing set i just put it right back in without checking the gear. And it was not the same brand, turns out im 3 degrees retarded with the new set, I checked everything tonight and degreed the cam in the right way ( Got a smaller degree wheel that clears ).. So that would probably solve the curve change in the car. Havent had room to make a new pressure test yet, but will do as soon as everything works as it should. No coolant in the oil and no oil in the coolant, as i removed the radiator for more space. So i guess the "2 stroke smoke" has to do with either the valleypan not sealed correctly or the valve stem seals but i cant see anything suspect on the seals. Before i swapped the piston rings i had almost 9.5bar across all cylinders. So ive learned, ( the hard way ) CHECK every part thats go inside the engine everytime but hey, its a learning curve for me at least. The engine is pretty much stock except the big job on the heads 79cc, milled and ported for some more cylinder pressure, 2 plane intake 750 street demon, TTI headers and now new rings because off the heavenly smoke i experienced earlier. Wich got a way, at first with the new piston rings, Second drive i had some smoke come out of the passenger side exhaust - condensation smoke is one thing, but when the car is at operation temp in warm weather it gets to me.

Ive done all the work myself except the milling and porting on the heads, so if i screwed something else up its all on me

View attachment 798478

Good grief. You are not being clear. Dowels don't just break - never on stockish motors. Its not bad luck - there is always a root cause. Something when badly wrong. What were you and the motor doing the moment before the dowel broke? Was this after or before you milled the heads? Before or after the Thumper cam? What was your piston to valve clearance? Did you remove and have all of the valves inspected after the dowel broke as surely one or more whacked a piston when the dowel broke. And you just said that it was down on power too. Maybe, just maybe the smoke and power loss are due to the same problem, not two totally random things like you're thinking.

 

[Runner71]

Good grief. You are not being clear. Dowels don't just break - never on stockish motors. Its not bad luck - there is always a root cause. Something when badly wrong. What were you and the motor doing the moment before the dowel broke? Was this after or before you milled the heads? Before or after the Thumper cam? What was your piston to valve clearance? Did you remove and have all of the valves inspected after the dowel broke as surely one or more whacked a piston when the dowel broke. And you just said that it was down on power too. Maybe, just maybe the smoke and power loss are due to the same problem, not two totally random things like you're thinking.

Well, the car was parked in the garage, the car started right up then died after a while on warmup. I was checkin the ignition system quite some time before i started wrenchin. As i teared it all down again, thats when i changed piston rings and checked the valves and went over everything down to the crank, So hopefully the car gets the bottomend back when i degreed the cam in, the middle to top rpm is really powerfull right now, but its a street driven car so i dont want the rpm curve, want it down in the redlight area and hopefully

 

[BSB67]

Okay

 

[Runner71]

Thats the wierd part with the cam, cant see anything suspect just that the dowel pin was gone :/ just a bent pushrod thats it, i dont know what caused it and i looked over everything but find nothing... Well, got some intake seals im gonna put'em on and see if it fix the oil on the plugs issue and as for the stem seals, cant really tell if they are bad or not, seems to be in place and the valves doesnt feel either to loose or to tight pushing it in and out.. So if the gasket doesnt fix it, guess ill just keep on changing parts...