Priming Engine and Timing Questions

[HawkRod]

First, pardon what may be basic questions - I am not an engine builder so I want to make sure I do things right.

Engine: 400 block stroker, 500 cubic inches. Was a running engine, removed from donor car in November. Only work done to it was a new oil pan and re-seated intake manifold. I am now getting ready to fire it up in the next couple of weeks. I want to prime the engine just in case before startup.

Process
I intend to set the engine to #1TDC and remove the distributor. I then need to remove the shaft with the cam gear. First, any tricks to pull it out? It looks like it could be tricky to get it out.

Also, the shaft with the cam gear has the slot in it that sets the location of the rotor. If the shaft goes back in oriented differently, I guess that changes where the rotor sits and obviously then the distributor housing needs to be realigned to the #1 spark plug? Is this OK? I actually would like to clock my distributor differently so the cap mounting tabs are oriented in a different spot.

Am I thinking through this correctly? I appreciate any guidance, tricks, help etc.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Don Frelier]

The distributor intermediate shaft comes out pretty easily in a clean engine. A heavy wire bent to a hook to reach under it should do the trick.
Then just grab it with some really long pointed pliers.
I've done this a few times and my latest method is my favorite:
1. Reinstall as you said at #1 tower on the distributor even if it's rotated slightly (changed a gear position on the intermediate shaft)
2. Remove all the plugs and connect #1 to a loose grounded plug.
3. Hook a timing light to it, crank it over with throttle and choke wide open and set base timing.
4. Reinstall, put an ounce of gas down the carb and it should start immediately.
You can recheck the timing, but I never did on my Satellite. Runs perfect.

Oh and be careful if useing a powerful drill motor when priming the oil system.
When it develops pressure it will really twist that drill and try and break your wrist.

 

[khryslerkid]

You got it!

The intermediate shaft can be removed using a large, long screwdriver. Place it in the slot and turn it so the gear rides up the cam gear. Sorry don't remember which way to turn it but you can look at the gear and see which way the teeth are pointing.

You'll need to rotate the crank also while priming.

 

[Fran Blacker]

To remove oil pump turn CCW. If you want it in same position as removed turn CCW then CW if not in right position repeat until it's in right position. SM says slot should be parallel to crank with #1 in firing position.

 

[EngineerDoug]

Hello guys, got a question prompted by Don's post above. With a fresh cam & lifters, is there any danger/damage potential when cranking the engine over for a short period?

I know some people are adamant about getting the engine to fire immediately and running above 2000 rpm. I know this is for proper cam break-in.

Just wondering...thanks.

 

[Don Frelier]

I don't think so, if you put assembly lube on everything and you just primed the pump it should be fine.
Unless maybe you've got some outrageous spring pressures which you shouldn't have for a cam break in anyway.

 

[myk r sanchez]

Its only been a few months since it ran; is the break-in procedure necessary? I bet if you just pulled the coil wire and cranked the engine for a bit longer than usual, enough oil should be distributed before actual startup...

 

[Don Frelier]

Yes but the pan's been off etc... it's not that hard to prime it.
They don't prime quickly just by cranking.
I suggest proceed as planned.

 

[66Satellite47]

If the motor is new or been sitting for more than a few months, I'd prime it by pulling the dist & pump drive shaft. Turn the pump drive CCW until the teeth disengage the cam, long needle nose pliers will pull it out if the motor is fairly clean. Get a priming tool, they're really inexpensive from Summit. I made my own 40+ years ago. Use a drill motor to spin the priming shaft counterclockwise & use a breaker bar to rotate the motor by hand a few rotations(w/valve covers off) to be sure oil gets up to the rocker arms. When you get pressure the drill will kick back hard, be careful. Rotate crank back to TDC #1 firing position. slide the pump drive back in, slot parallel to crank CL. Dist back in set #1.

 

[HawkRod]

Thank you for all the replies! That confirms my understanding and also provided some helpful additional tips. THANKS!!!

One additional question: I don't have a 5/16 hex priming rod. Do you think I can use the setup below? It is a long 3/8 inch extension with a 5/16 socket on it. I can also add some electricians tape to help keep the socket on.

Thoughts?

 

[Fran Blacker]

If that socket goes threw bushing don't lose it coming out. I cut an hex wrench cut the diameter down on a 1/2" of it to fit inside straight 3/8" steel tube and a steel shaft on other end and brazed it together. No welder the time.

 

[66Satellite47]

Not likely that will fit through the bushing. I used 2 stock shafts, cut the gears off each, welded them together so hex on each end & they fit the bushing like stock. The ones available from Summit are quicker & easier than making my own.

 

[Don Frelier]

I've seen paint stirrers for a drill with the correct shaft size. You could just cut the shaft off

 

[MoparLeo]

Or you can buy the proper tool. A hardened oil pump priming shaft is sold by companies that sell Mopar Performance parts. https://www.summitracing.com/search...e/dodge/engine-size/6-3l-383?N=engine-type:v8
Also a safety recommendation. Do not pour fuel down the carb. And always have a properly rated fir extinguisher nearby. A wet towel to cover the top of the engine is also a good idea in case of fuel fire.
The proper way is to fill the fuel bowls in the carb. This is done by using the proper sized fuel hose along with a small funnel attached to the fuel bowl vents. This way the accelerator pump will put the correct amount of atomized fuel into the intake instead of just splashing raw fuel and you will instantly control the engines rpm because the carb is full and not waiting for the fuel pump to cycle enough times to prime and then pump air and then fuel into the carb. You want instant start up and fuel control. There is a method to the madness of why the factory indexes the distributor housing orientation. It allows the proper amount of rotational space to properly advance/retard timing. Unless you are changing something from factory stock around this area it is best to leave it the way it was designed. It wasn't by accident that they designed things a certain way. Initial timing should set BEFORE start up. You want the engine to start immediately not cold cranking, turning the distributor until it starts. Set the actual timing while it is running, with the vacuum advance disconnected. See attached the service manual pages on proper installation procedure.

 

[beanhead]

I bought a 3-ft length of this(5/16") and cut it to fit so my drill sits exactly where I want it to..the 1-ft piece isn't quit long enough. Plus I'm a cheap bastard.
https://www.mcmaster.com/hex-shafts/low-carbon-steel-hex-bars/

...
Also a safety recommendation. Do not pour fuel down the carb. And always have a properly rated fir extinguisher nearby. A wet towel to cover the top of the engine is also a good idea in case of fuel fire.
The proper way is to fill the fuel bowls in the carb....

I couldn't agree more with this. Fuel the engine the way the carb does during normal operation.

 

[beanhead]

If the motor is new or been sitting for more than a few months, I'd prime it by pulling the dist & pump drive shaft. Turn the pump drive CCW until the teeth disengage the cam, long needle nose pliers will pull it out if the motor is fairly clean. Get a priming tool, they're really inexpensive from Summit. I made my own 40+ years ago. Use a drill motor to spin the priming shaft counterclockwise & use a breaker bar to rotate the motor by hand a few rotations(w/valve covers off) to be sure oil gets up to the rocker arms. When you get pressure the drill will kick back hard, be careful. Rotate crank back to TDC #1 firing position. slide the pump drive back in, slot parallel to crank CL. Dist back in set #1.

 

[HawkRod]

Thanks to all for the additional insight and help!

Not likely that will fit through the bushing. I used 2 stock shafts, cut the gears off each, welded them together so hex on each end & they fit the bushing like stock. The ones available from Summit are quicker & easier than making my own.

You are correct! I tried it last night and it will not fit. A priming rod is $13, so I just ordered one - smart to have a proper tool anyway.

Or you can buy the proper tool. A hardened oil pump priming shaft is sold by companies that sell Mopar Performance parts. https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/oil-pump-primers/engine-type/v8/make/dodge/engine-size/6-3l-383?N=engine-type:v8
Also a safety recommendation. Do not pour fuel down the carb. And always have a properly rated fir extinguisher nearby. A wet towel to cover the top of the engine is also a good idea in case of fuel fire.
The proper way is to fill the fuel bowls in the carb. This is done by using the proper sized fuel hose along with a small funnel attached to the fuel bowl vents. This way the accelerator pump will put the correct amount of atomized fuel into the intake instead of just splashing raw fuel and you will instantly control the engines rpm because the carb is full and not waiting for the fuel pump to cycle enough times to prime and then pump air and then fuel into the carb. You want instant start up and fuel control. There is a method to the madness of why the factory indexes the distributor housing orientation. It allows the proper amount of rotational space to properly advance/retard timing. Unless you are changing something from factory stock around this area it is best to leave it the way it was designed. It wasn't by accident that they designed things a certain way. Initial timing should set BEFORE start up. You want the engine to start immediately not cold cranking, turning the distributor until it starts. Set the actual timing while it is running, with the vacuum advance disconnected. See attached the service manual pages on proper installation procedure.

Thanks for these details - much appreciated! In my case, my car is fuel injected, so there is no pouring fuel down the carb! Also, I have computer controlled timing, so my distributor is fixed in place and does not have a vacuum canister - this is all controlled by the computer. However, it has a big Chevy cap, and the mounting tabs interfere with my aluminum head. If I clock the entire unit a few degrees then the mounting tabs will not interfere, so this is the reason I want to rotate it.

Also, I messed around with my original engine last night. I found that reverse pliers are perfect for pulling the shaft!

 

[66Satellite47]

I use the large external snap ring expander pliers most of the time on mine.