Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger

Kern Dog

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Another day, another series of disappointments!
I adjusted the tie rod sleeves to get the toe setting closer to zero before a drive.
First though, I disconnected the hydraulic lines to the steering box and with the car off the ground, I slowly steered the wheel full left, then right three times. I did this with the hopes that any small matter that may be in the steering box might blow out with the fluid. I connected the lines, topped the P/S reservoir and started it up.
Same thing… I steered left, right three times really slow.
Once back on the ground, I drove around the yard again. No change. The steering assist is almost non existent at idle. Revving it up, it does start to work though.
The front brakes do skid on the dirt. No signs of the rears skidding though. First things first. If I can’t safely steer the car, I don’t want to risk driving out in traffic.
The steering has me really annoyed. It worked great before this project. I am going to try yet another pump and see if it helps. The fluid looks clear and clean. It would really be a strange coincidence to have 3 pumps crap out for no specific reason.
One of the pumps was a rebuilt one from the NAPA store.

I sent an email to Peter Bergman from Bergman Auto Craft. I bought the Borgeson steering setup from him. I asked him if he has encountered a situation like mine.
To summarize: I installed the Borgeson steering box in May of this year and only drove the car a few times. The steering assist at idle was normal and the car performed fine. Since the car has been back together and while trying to get the hydroboost to work, three pumps quickly went from moderate steering assist at idle to none. Now a 4th pump is doing the same thing even though it was installed after I removed the HB unit. I wondered if some foreign matter from inside the hydroboost got pushed into the steering box and is either blocking flow or preventing free movement.
 
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ckessel

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Hopefully you succeed in the quest. Parts store rebuilds are, to me, a crapshoot. Is there a mom and pop independent store around to source from? They generally deal with some higher quality items.
 

68 Sport Satellite

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I'll take "obstruction/failure in hose" for $50, Alex.
Yeah, I have a hard time believing 3 pumps all failed in short order. I bet the pumps are still good, but they're just not playing nice with something else in the system...

Greg, did you ever take one of the pumps that quit working and take it apart to see if anything is amiss? Blown seal, debris, etc? Might be worth doing.
 

Kern Dog

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Often times when I’m doing some project, I stumble across some issue, something that is ready to fail or some poor prior repair.
I can’t just let those things remain. I try to fix whatever I find.
The issue about a flow restriction is a valid possibility. The pressure side runs upwards of 1000 psi. I don’t know how much pressure is in the return line.
As I was swapping brackets and the cooler over to the 5th pump, I saw this:

D00BF74E-1CF8-4126-B9C9-C28B6C6E5B41.jpeg


A closer look…

F2F843A7-BEC7-42C3-8048-C02E4216561F.jpeg


That upper line has a kink in it. That line comes in from the return on the steering box. All the times I had the pump in and out, I must have pulled UP too much and kinked the line. I don’t know how much it was collapsed but it sure didn’t help. In the past, a pump that was starved for fluid usually howled. This one never did so I am curious if this was enough to be a problem.
I’m back to a regular pump and reservoir now with a single return nipple.

0703B302-E723-4FA5-A824-69C87128E279.jpeg


I filled it with fresh fluid.

5EFA2666-B231-4572-B090-758BCA120FBA.jpeg


I bled it out and it performs normally.
For now…..
If the steering continues to function normally, I can probably place some (if not all) of the blame on the kinked line…. A mistake of my own.
Now onto the brakes.
 

Kern Dog

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I went out for a drive and got 12 gallons of 91 octane...

8100 G.jpg


I recalibrated the speedometer....

DD panel 7.jpg


With this setup being electronic, the recalibration is just a matter of pressing a button, driving a mile and pressing the button again.

With a stock setup, you need a chart like this.

Speedom.jpg


The steering seems fine. I clearly need a front end alignment. The brakes do work but are not impressive. I want to hit them and feel as confident as I do with a newer car.
The hydroboost would have been a good idea if it worked but I'm hesitant about it. Did that kink in the line on the cooler "shortchange" the effects of the HB unit? In review, the brakes never got any boost at all. In a power system, even if the brakes are not bled 100%. you still get some assist. If the engine vacuum is crappy, you still get some then too. If I knew of a way to bench test this HB unit, I would have kept trying to make it work.
I've already committed to returning it to Dr Diff.

One great thing....The engine runs great. The timing is not set to the limits and I do need to dig into the carburetor to fine tune the jetting and power valve but it runs strong.
I don't see any leaks. The car sounds quieter than I remember. Road noise seems to be reduced, there are fewer rattles. Is my hearing going bad?
I installed new motor mounts. Could the old ones have been transmitting vibrations that aren't there now? Really, the car feels civilized like a newer car.
The tighter valve lash (compared to the '528 cam) results in a lot less clatter.
For now, I can drive the car around and fiddle around with the parts to change back to power brakes. I still have the 1975 Dart setup that fit and worked. I'll refinish the brackets that were hastily spray bombed black awhile back:

837 R.jpg


838 R.jpeg
 
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Kern Dog

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I will continue working with the manual setup but I'm starting to think that it isn't going to feel good enough to keep in place. I do have options though.

The backup plan is as follows:

The 1975 Dart booster and brackets will be cleaned and refinished.

839 R.jpeg
840 R.JPG
845 R.JPG
846 R.JPG


I need to see if the 4 bolt to 2 bolt adapter will work...

825 R.JPG


.....to allow me to use this 1 1/8" master cylinder that I had attached to the hydroboost....

850 R.JPG



The issue that I see is that with the additional thickness of the 4 to 2 adapter, the drive rod in the booster may need to be extended.

841 R.JPG



The setup already uses a spacer....

851 R.jpg


The thickness between this and the 4 to 2 adapter may be different and require adjustment of the rod that presses the master cylinder piston.
Finally, the brake pedal pushrod may need to be modified to get the pedal to rest where I like it.
 

68 Sport Satellite

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Good progress. Glad you found the kinked line!
knowing this, it's really too bad the hydroboost didn't get a fair shake. I bet it would have worked well. Call Dr Diff and tell him you found a probable cause and you're going to try again. Do it. DO IT. You know you want to. LOL (you're retired, right?)
 

Kern Dog

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Here is a reading of what kind of vacuum I'm showing at idle:

IMG_1158.JPG


Yeah....7 inches of vacuum at idle. I do have a good vacuum pump that will be part of the plan.
Years ago, I had the vacuum pump wired to run when the key was on. I didn't use a relay or a fuse then but will use one or the other this time.
 

Kern Dog

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Good progress. Glad you found the kinked line!
knowing this, it's really too bad the hydroboost didn't get a fair shake. I bet it would have worked well. Call Dr Diff and tell him you found a probable cause and you're going to try again. Do it. DO IT. You know you want to. LOL (you're retired, right?)
I am very hesitant to do that.
I have some feeling that it is defective and to reinstall it might just piss me off when it repeats the same symptoms.
I will email Cass and see if the kink in the cooler could be a cause. If he thinks so, I would be willing to try again. I just hate wasted efforts. I really needed some guidance with this installation and I didn't get much. That is why it was free.....I was the one man Research and development team.
I'll email him now and report back when I get a response.
Bergman has yet to respond regarding the steering issue but hopefully the new pump and UNkinked line put an end to that.
 

Kern Dog

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Yeah, I have a hard time believing 3 pumps all failed in short order. I bet the pumps are still good, but they're just not playing nice with something else in the system...

Greg, did you ever take one of the pumps that quit working and take it apart to see if anything is amiss? Blown seal, debris, etc? Might be worth doing.
With the kink in the line, it does make me wonder.
One of the pumps had the spring fully compressed and the flow control valve stuck wide open.

806 R (2).jpg


They might be okay. I'm sure not in the mood to test them on this car. I've removed and installed pumps maybe 10 times in the past month. Hell, maybe more. I'm tired of doing it.
I won't throw the pumps out. I'll keep them for future projects.
 

Kern Dog

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I was busy the last few days but I intend to resume some car stuff tomorrow.
Since 2012, I have wondered if I could make a manual master cylinder setup work in the car. That year, I tried but couldn't get any of the 4 setups to work and feel right. I blamed several things for the failure. Now I have the system set up pretty good with a proper front to rear bias but the setup still isn't good enough. It is now abundantly clear that this car needs some type of assist to make it easier to stop.
I absolutely know that Mary would be scared to drive the car with brakes that felt like this. She surely doesn't have the leg strength to press hard enough to get the tires to skid. Hell.....I might not either.
A goal that I have for my cars is that they should be functional enough so that any driver could get in and operate it safely.
It was safe before I did this engine and brake swap and Mary could have driven it once she learns how to operate a clutch!
Here is the spot that I am in:
I have everything here to convert back to the vacuum booster and vacuum pump arrangement.
I also have the hydroboost stuff on the table. I have the actual power steering pump from the junkyard Chevy truck. That surely had a 9000 lb GVWR or higher, easily double the weight of my car and the Saginaw steering pump was OEM equipment.
The vacuum setup weighs a little more and will look a bit more cluttered but I do know that it worked before.
The hydroboost setup works in theory but I feel a little "burned" by all the work I did with it with zero success. Did it fail to work simply because of the kink in the return line? Was I three feet from the goal line of making it work when I walked away?
Decisions, decisions.....
Rut ro.jpg
 

hunt2elk

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I was busy the last few days but I intend to resume some car stuff tomorrow.
Since 2012, I have wondered if I could make a manual master cylinder setup work in the car. That year, I tried but couldn't get any of the 4 setups to work and feel right. I blamed several things for the failure. Now I have the system set up pretty good with a proper front to rear bias but the setup still isn't good enough. It is now abundantly clear that this car needs some type of assist to make it easier to stop.
I absolutely know that Mary would be scared to drive the car with brakes that felt like this. She surely doesn't have the leg strength to press hard enough to get the tires to skid. Hell.....I might not either.
A goal that I have for my cars is that they should be functional enough so that any driver could get in and operate it safely.
It was safe before I did this engine and brake swap and Mary could have driven it once she learns how to operate a clutch!
Here is the spot that I am in:
I have everything here to convert back to the vacuum booster and vacuum pump arrangement.
I also have the hydroboost stuff on the table. I have the actual power steering pump from the junkyard Chevy truck. That surely had a 9000 lb GVWR or higher, easily double the weight of my car and the Saginaw steering pump was OEM equipment.
The vacuum setup weighs a little more and will look a bit more cluttered but I do know that it worked before.
The hydroboost setup works in theory but I feel a little "burned" by all the work I did with it with zero success. Did it fail to work simply because of the kink in the return line? Was I three feet from the goal line of making it work when I walked away?
Decisions, decisions.....
View attachment 1376485
I think it is a good thing that you are now retired, lol.
 

Kern Dog

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retired.jpg


Yeah...more free time to go down wild goose chases!
 

moparedtn

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No way to know for sure, but if it was me I'd be sending that stuff back to Dr Diff and washing my
hands of it. Too much aggravation and frustration already built into the damn thing, even if by some
miracle it worked next time you tried it.
Screw it. Outta here.
 
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