Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger

[Kern Dog]

I have this drum-drum distribution block....

If I were to want to take it further, I could have just ran the rear brake line directly to the master cylinder, (By way of a coupler) the front lines to the master cylinder (Also using some type of T or coupler) and omit the distribution block entirely. Rick Ehrenberg doesn't think much of these. He talks about systems plumbed the way I described with the reasoning that the fluid will still go to the side with the least resistance if there is a breach....and that the brake warning light is pointless since you'd feel a failure in the pedal before the light even comes on.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I have this drum-drum distribution block....

View attachment 1371087

If I were to want to take it further, I could have just ran the rear brake line directly to the master cylinder, (By way of a coupler) the front lines to the master cylinder (Also using some type of T or coupler) and omit the distribution block entirely. Rick Ehrenberg doesn't think much of these. He talks about systems plumbed the way I described with the reasoning that the fluid will still go to the side with the least resistance if there is a breach....and that the brake warning light is pointless since you'd feel a failure in the pedal before the light even comes on.

Rick has his opinions, I have mine... The point of the valve isn't really the light thats just a easy addition that makes government regulators feel good... The point is by blocking flow to the side with a leak you prevent fluid loss... Not really a big deal with separate chambers for front & rear brakes but allot of cars especially newer cars use a single reservoir for both circuits...

 

[Kern Dog]

I understand that the system was said to block flow from the leaking side but I've never known that to work. In every instance where I have lost a wheel cylinder or front caliper hose, the pedal hit the floor anyway. This gives some support to Rick's claim.
Maybe I've just had old and faulty distribution blocks or proportioning valves that were gummed up inside?

 

[moparedtn]

Greg, The longest line method has it's reasons and that applies more directly in a single circuit system but with a split system like Mopars have starting in 67 there is a spool valve that will shift off center if there is a pressure imbalance preventing fluid flow to the side of the system that it perceives as having low pressure...

So you treat it as two systems, bleed the longest line on the side of the system with flow first and try to balance the pressure so the spool self centers allowing you to bleed the other side of the system...

View attachment 1371086

Not to hijack, but is there any way this thing could cause an otherwise unexplained LF bias vs. RF
on my 4-drum setup?

 

[Kern Dog]

I would think that has more to do with a failing hose that bulges under pressure or some other mechanical issue.

 

[4406bbl]

Not to hijack, but is there any way this thing could cause an otherwise unexplained LF bias vs. RF
on my 4-drum setup?

Or an old steel line with rust inside, have seen that on cars that sat a lot.

 

[4406bbl]

I understand that the system was said to block flow from the leaking side but I've never known that to work. In every instance where I have lost a wheel cylinder or front caliper hose, the pedal hit the floor anyway. This gives some support to Rick's claim.
Maybe I've just had old and faulty distribution blocks or proportioning valves that were gummed up inside?

That system has saved my azz a few times here in the rust belt, the pedal gets low but you can get stopped. The newer cars that left right front rear swap stop and work really well, but since the master is one bowl you only get so many stops. I cannot say for sure on a 1970 proportioning valve, I would think it should seal up with a pressure loss.

 

[4406bbl]

The 4-wheel disc systems I have been around for retro fit never seemed to be just right, they always liked 1-1/8" master, 15/16" feels better for pressure, but the extra pedal travel takes some getting used to. When I do my car again I am going to try a metering valve for the front brakes....so the rears can get the weight transfered a split second before the fronts come on, there is one I looked at that holds off until 68lbs. I also use an adjustable prop valve on the rear lines, the common small wilwood style. I also want to try a 2lb residual valve on the front lines to keep the pedal as high as possible, if they drag then away that goes. Different pad compounds may also get the front rear balance/weight transfer vs rear lockup dialed in better. It is really hard to get this all perfect on a car you street drive as you know. You want to be able to stand on the pedal with no rear lockup dry, and still have no lockup on wet pavement, not real easy for sure.The factory disc/drum setup was not too bad on a 1970 b-body with 10" rear brakes, but would lock up the rears on an e-body. I hope you get it working well, it does look better without all those extra parts under the hood.

 

[Kern Dog]

The distribution block I have in the car is not original nor correct for the year. It is from some 4 wheel drum Dart or Valiant. It merely serves as a large union for all the fittings to attach.

 

[moparedtn]

I would think that has more to do with a failing hose that bulges under pressure or some other mechanical issue.

Or an old steel line with rust inside, have seen that on cars that sat a lot.

Hoses are all new, both sides blow fluid upon bleeding...as are the wheel cylinders, hardware, everything else too.
All USA-made, too. I got a whole thread on this mess on here somewhere....
I'm down to either a)something wonky going on in the dist. block or b)old sway bar/new sway bar mounts putting
a twang on something.

 

[Kern Dog]

Pulling to one side could also be worn out strut rod bushings or a bent tie rod.

 

[Kern Dog]

On Saturday, I pulled the car out and drove around the yard a little bit. There is still some air in the lines and the pedal travel was a bit long but the car did stop. I haven't had time to finish bleeding the system since I stepped away to do some home repairs.
The braking did take more effort than I prefer but I suspect that some pads need to be "bedded" in ? I'll have to research what that means. I've glossed over it in articles that I have read but I suspect it has to do with some type of break in of the brake pad material.
I'd appreciate any advice you may have regarding that. Even if the brakes are not great right now, I can at least drive the car and sort out some other things that arise when a car is put back together. The speedometer has to be recalibrated. That is a fairly simple procedure with this Dakota Digital gauge setup.
I set the timing at 2500 rpms, the point that I usually do due to the habit of aiming for "all-in" numbers that are often more crucial than at idle. When I first set the timing, I was faced with the usual smoke from fingerprints on headers, small oil drips and that rear main seal leak. I didn't confirm the timing at idle. It used to feel right in the 17 degree range with the "all-in" numbers in the 31-32 range. This was with the 10.8 compression I ran years ago as well as the most recent combination at 10.1 to 1. This combination should be able to take a little more since the CR is down a little to 9.8 to 1 and with the actual quench that I have now. I'm going to wait until I swap in the FBO ignition box and coil since it seems that timing can vary a bit when these components are switched around.
The engine does not sound quite as rowdy and raspy as it did before with this cam. Maybe it is my ears or a faulty memory but I thought the engine had a more aggressive tone the last time I ran with it. The tighter lash of this setup (compared to the MP 528) sure results in a lot less clatter.
The idle isn't as rough as I recall. That is a good thing in terms of streetability. I aim to check the idle vacuum numbers just to make a record of them. If I recall, I had 10-11" of vacuum in neutral before.

 

[CoronetDarter]

I'm looking forward to hearing about the FBO box. My Coronet has the Pertronix distributor with Flame Thrower coil. The Dart has a stock no-name electronic distributor with the Mopar chrome box and stock coil. I've read up on the FBO box on the 4secondsflat website and wondered if it gave a performance advantage over my current setup.

 

[66 Sat]

Bedding in is pretty straightforward - I had to do it recently on my daily driver when I changed all 4 discs and pads. You just need a long quiet stretch of road, get to about 60 mph and brake hard, but not to the point of lock-up. Don't come to a complete stop, just to say 5 mph, then accelerate back to 60 mph and repeat...about 8-10 times. Then drive around a bit to cool the brakes down. From what I read before I did mine, you are transferring pad material to the rotor.

Here's the thing though, when I first got my Satellite back on the road with the new engine re-build (about 5 years ago) and new disc brake front, I didn't even think about bedding in the brakes. I took the car up a local mountain to seat the rings and think I bedded in the brakes inadvertently coming down the other side.

So there's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[padam]

Bedding in is pretty straightforward - I had to do it recently on my daily driver when I changed all 4 discs and pads. You just need a long quiet stretch of road, get to about 60 mph and brake hard, but not to the point of lock-up. Don't come to a complete stop, just to say 5 mph, then accelerate back to 60 mph and repeat...about 8-10 times. Then drive around a bit to cool the brakes down. From what I read before I did mine, you are transferring pad material to the rotor.

Here's the thing though, when I first got my Satellite back on the road with the new engine re-build (about 5 years ago) and new disc brake front, I didn't even think about bedding in the brakes. I took the car up a local mountain to seat the rings and think I bedded in the brakes inadvertently coming down the other side.

So there's more than one way to skin a cat.
View attachment 1373168

I do 15-20 firm stops from about 45 mph, driving for at least 1 minute in between for cooling.
I do this on all brake jobs now.

 

[Kern Dog]

I have never bedded any brakes before. I always just assembled the stuff and drive the vehicle like before. I recall years back that Raybestos pads seemed to improve after a few miles, as if the pad material compressed and the pedal got firmer.
Maybe it is the same with other brands?

 

[padam]

I worked at a shop for awhile and that’s what Wagner recommends. It seemed to cut down on come backs for squealing.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I concur with my experience as was recommended to me, except instead of 15-20 times from a single speed, it goes like this -
30-5 mph, 1 min in between x 5
40-5 mph, 1 min in between x 5
50-5 mph, 1 min in between x 5

Or something like that. Successively higher speeds. Never fully stop so the pad material transfer can do it's thing.

 

[Kern Dog]

I went for a short drive and on the way back, I ran out of gas.
It is odd how fast an engine can go through 5 gallons even without going anywhere. Since first fire, All I did was start it and run it several times here at home. I drove around the yard several times but collectively, I doubt I put 3 miles on it.
The alignment is a mile off. The TOE is way out. I will clock the tie rod sleeves to get it closer to zero. The drive to the alignment shop is across town and I sure don't want to chew up the tires getting there.
The steering assist is messed up. This never happened until I started in with the Hydroboost unit. It is choppy again at idle. In a turn coming home, I ran wide and had to muscle the wheel to avoid hitting another car. Did the HB pass some junk through the system and screw up my steering box? If so, that is bullshit. The steering kit cost me $900 and I have barely 50 miles on it. I'll have to look to see if there is some foreign material blocking the inlet.
The brakes feel weird.
At low speeds, they grab like an anchor. I can feel the car snub up like I turned off on a sandy road. At speed, they don't feel so good. I didn't get to drive it long enough to "bed in" The pads. Time will tell if the setup will be acceptable or not.
I had to walk 1/4 mile back home to get gas. It fired up with fuel and I drove it back home.
Plenty to do but I've had to pull away to do some home repairs.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Nice report KD. Sorry to hear of the multiple issues. I know it will feel great to get it all sorted. I better go gas my car!