Rear End Noise ?

[Jeff 69]

Thank you for the info on the green bearings. I'll know next time..next time will be the correct bearings.

The noise only comes at 40 mph, and stops at 45. No noise anytime before or after.
The guy must of just set up the gears wrong. Now I have about 400 miles on that gear.
I'll have to get a new set up and have other shop do it.

 

[RJRENTON]

Cranky,
Yes, I'm an engineer with 40+ years experience in industry (Maintenance Manager position with 70 trades people working for me in a chemicial plant with ALL equipment involved) with my responsibility for keeping all plant processes and equipment safe, operational and productive, I've come to realize that NOT to cut material costs for the purpose unsubstantiated gains.
Selecting the "right" relacment part for a failed compnent is paramont to a successful recovery and long term profitable operation.
My experiences were with 100 ton overhead cranes, coal fired steam boilers, process pumps, mobil machinery (outdoor crawler cranes, 84 ton diesel locomotives, fork trucks), high temp furnaces, plant electrical power distribution equipment, etc. I believe that these items qualifies me to have and make my directed opinions.
Regarding the "Green Bearings", what is their published L-10 life expectancy based on normal operating conditions? ....maximum operating conditions?
You state Ford uses ball bearings in their axle designs...where, what positions, what type of bearing ? The Ford 9" rear uses a single row ball bearing at the end of the the pinion gear to control the separating forces at the ring gear pinion gear interface. What are the carrier bearing's? What are the pinion bearings? What are the Axle bearings?
Bob Renton

 

[khryslerkid]

Cranky,
Yes, I'm an engineer with 40+ years experience in industry (Maintenance Manager position with 70 trades people working for me in a chemicial plant with ALL equipment involved) with my responsibility for keeping all plant processes and equipment safe, operational and productive, I've come to realize that NOT to cut material costs for the purpose unsubstantiated gains.
Selecting the "right" relacment part for a failed compnent is paramont to a successful recovery and long term profitable operation.
My experiences were with 100 ton overhead cranes, coal fired steam boilers, process pumps, mobil machinery (outdoor crawler cranes, 84 ton diesel locomotives, fork trucks), high temp furnaces, plant electrical power distribution equipment, etc. I believe that these items qualifies me to have and make my directed opinions.
Regarding the "Green Bearings", what is their published L-10 life expectancy based on normal operating conditions? ....maximum operating conditions?
You state Ford uses ball bearings in their axle designs...where, what positions, what type of bearing ? The Ford 9" rear uses a single row ball bearing at the end of the the pinion gear to control the separating forces at the ring gear pinion gear interface. What are the carrier bearing's? What are the pinion bearings? What are the Axle bearings?
Bob Renton

Bob, I appreciate the fact that you have a engineering background and are probably pretty much like me having a slight case of OCD wanting things to be done right and not half assed. I did my share of mechanical work, not only working as a mechanic but also with industrial machinery. I was always amazed at how the German made machinery was done. A whole different way of thinking. I'm not as particular as I used to be and I have learned to draw the line on some things.

It would be great if they had a sealed side load bearing for these axels but I don't think they do. Some applications do call for the sealed bearings when changing center sections and the like or in my case I wanted to keep the same narrow axel housing and a taypered roller wasn't an option when converting from the old style taypered axels to the newer flanged axels. Useing the sealed bearing is just the way it's done.

All of the newer cars out there have gone to sealed bearings in their hubs, front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, all wheel drive. I don't think they are holding up as well as a greased taypered bearing would but that's what the manufacturers have gone too.

Years ago the brand name "Green" bearings had a bad batch circulating out there. I'm sure they got a lot of bad press from that time period but all has been corrected and they have been holding up fine. Thanks for you're input on the subject.

 

[RJRENTON]

KK,
i appreciate your understanding and viewpoint. In industry, I've had to the utilize the judgement and techniques of the millwrights (mechanics) working with and for me to resolve a problem. We had the same objective: fix the problem and get the plant operational again....expeditiously.
FYI...years sgo, SKF (late 1980's) developed and marketed an angular contact bearing for the automotive industry, especially aimed at the developing front wheel drive segment. SKF's development was a self lubricated bearing assembly using a sealed, oil impregnated non metallic ball seperator that, during use, kept the rolling elements lubricated and separated, and then later retracted the lubricant when the bearing was at rest.
Tapered roller bearings are not the ultimate be all and to end all solution to an anti-friction application. When applied correctly and within design critetia, anti-friction bearings (all types) are wonderful devices. Thanks in advance for your help and opinions.
Bob Renton

 

[Cranky]

Ford used the ball type bearing as wheel bearings....don't know when they started or how long they used them but I know they were used in the 8" rear in the mid/late 60's which is just a baby version of the 9" rear. Not sure what they used in the 9 for wheel bearings but since they are pretty much identical, can't see why they wouldn't use a ball in that rear too.

I too was in the mechanical field as an inside/outside machinist working in a refinery rebuilding rotating equipment and doing machine work making new parts for same. And what's the L-10 of a green bearing? Lots of factors there to consider. Will the customer be drifting the car or drag racing or using it to go buy groceries day in and day out? Also how long a sealed has been sitting on a shelf plays a part if it's been sitting long enough for the lube to dry out or separate and I've found some of that going on. But I can tell you that the ball bearings that were in my 10 second race car in the mid 80's with well over 300 passes on it still turn smoothly today. Would I use them again? Not until I pop the seals off and give them a good cleaning/inspection and then stuffing in some new lube

 

[Cranky]

Thank you for the info on the green bearings. I'll know next time..next time will be the correct bearings.

The noise only comes at 40 mph, and stops at 45. No noise anytime before or after.
The guy must of just set up the gears wrong. Now I have about 400 miles on that gear.
I'll have to get a new set up and have other shop do it.

Do the gears make noise at 40-45 no matter if you have your foot on the gas and accelerating through that speed or make the noise when coasting down through that speed or do they make noise no matter what you are doing with the throttle while going through the 40-45 speed?

 

[65Fury440]

Some manufacturers of gears make more noise than others.
I asked Cass (Dr Diff) why this is, as I have had several gear changes through the years, with some being noisy and some not.
He said it was the gear finish tolerances.
My 3.54 Spicer R/P make no noise, the 4.10 Motives in the same rear end make a faint noise at cruise around 40mph. They have also gotten considerably quieter with more miles.

 

[Cranky]

Some manufacturers of gears make more noise than others.
I asked Cass (Dr Diff) why this is, as I have had several gear changes through the years, with some being noisy and some not.
He said it was the gear finish tolerances.
My 3.54 Spicer R/P make no noise, the 4.10 Motives in the same rear end make a faint noise at cruise around 40mph. They have also gotten considerably quieter with more miles.

Bought a brand new 90 Dakota and the rear end had a slight gear noise (had to really listen for it). Took it back to the dealer and they said it was acceptable but if it got louder to bring it back. It never did get any louder but stayed the same and was that way when the oldest daughter totaled it with over 100k miles on it.

 

[Jeff 69]

The noise goes away if I take my foot off the gas . I drive around town about 40 to 45 .
Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[Cranky]

The noise goes away if I take my foot off the gas . I drive around town about 40 to 45 .
Thanks for all the feedback.

Generally, that's an indication the pinion depth is too deep but with 400 miles on it now, it's probably to late to make a change but I'd sure give it a try. A good bead blasting to the drive side of the teeth might do the trick since the mileage is low. I've done that before with good results on gears with a lot more miles than that.....

 

[Jeff 69]

Thank you for the update about the pinion depth.
I'll check it all out. Thank you.

 

[oldkimmer]

Yes, Ford used them (roller bearings) in the 60s/70s/80s on 8 and 9 inch rears they made millions and millions of miles. The reason they worked then was the axles butted up against the spider pin in the rear Diff. If u use the green bearings with the snap ring u can leave the Center pin in the diff and not have any problems with side loading. They will and have made many trouble free miles. Kim