Recore or replace?

[matchek]

Actually copper/brass radiator is more conductive than aluminum. However they do not have the structural strength to make the tubes in the core the same as the aluminum and the aluminum is cheaper.

Actually if you want to be technical, it depends on the actual compositon of the rad which who knows for sure what it would be from the factory. Copper has a thermal conductivity of 411, Brass 111, and Alumnimum of 277. So if a Copper / Brass Rad was 55% copper it would around 240.

Aluminum is more corrision resistant and stronger (lasts longer) and a better long term option if not a perfectionist and less maintenance.

I will yield that if a rad is much more copper than brass from the factory it will transfer heat better.

 

[RJRENTON]

I do like this double fan option. Does this fit on 22" and 26" rads?

Now, I hope you have saved significant $$$ with the radiator purchase to fund the complete charging systen up grade to run the fans.....higher capacity alternator, wiring, relays, fan temperature controls, etc.....just a thought......
BOB RENTON

 

[matchek]

Now, I hope you have saved significant $$$ with the radiator purchase to fund the complete charging systen up grade to run the fans.....higher capacity alternator, wiring, relays, fan temperature controls, etc.....just a thought......
BOB RENTON

Interesting questions. My hunch tells me two small fans is not that big of a draw especially considering no A/C even with a standard alternator.

From Rock Auto, the standard alternator is 60 AMPs.

 

[threewood]

Find a local radiator shop to recore it. Glenray is good but you can get good work done local as well.

 

[RJRENTON]

Actually if you want to be technical, it depends on the actual compositon of the rad which who knows for sure what it would be from the factory. Copper has a thermal conductivity of 411, Brass 111, and Alumnimum of 277. So if a Copper / Brass Rad was 55% copper it would around 240.

Aluminum is more corrision resistant and stronger (lasts longer) and a better long term option if not a perfectionist and less maintenance.

I will yield that if a rad is much more copper than brass from the factory it will transfer heat better.

A lot depends on which aluminum alloy is being used......3003 vs 6061 vs 3031 vs......some alloys are more form-able, some more corrosion resistant, cost considerations,.....for example:
Aluminum 5052. 5052 should be considered The Hulk of alloys. It’s one of the most durable aluminums and is particularly good at resisting degradation and corrosion. 5052 is relatively cost efficient and holds up well during machining work. The downside? If you bend 5052 past a 90˚ degree angle it can easily crack or damage a project’s corners.

Aluminum 6061. Ever wondered what most building skeleton’s are composed of? Chances are good it’s 6061. This is the most frequently used structural alloy and is great for framing and welding. Unfortunately, this type of alloy isn’t as malleable as others so if you aren’t careful it can crack during forming. It’s also more costly than 5052, so make sure you know what you’re doing before getting started!

Aluminum 3003. At the commercial level, 3003 is the equivalent of a famous celebrity. Aluminum 3003 is combined with a small amount of manganese, making it stronger than other similar alloys. Like 5052, it’s great at combating corrosion and is easy to work with. The downside? 3003 isn’t quite up to par when it comes to anodizing processes.

BOB RENTON

 

[matchek]

A lot depends on which aluminum alloy is being used......3003 vs 6061 vs 3031 vs......some alloys are more form-able, some more corrosion resistant, cost considerations,.....for example:
Aluminum 5052. 5052 should be considered The Hulk of alloys. It’s one of the most durable aluminums and is particularly good at resisting degradation and corrosion. 5052 is relatively cost efficient and holds up well during machining work. The downside? If you bend 5052 past a 90˚ degree angle it can easily crack or damage a project’s corners.

Aluminum 6061. Ever wondered what most building skeleton’s are composed of? Chances are good it’s 6061. This is the most frequently used structural alloy and is great for framing and welding. Unfortunately, this type of alloy isn’t as malleable as others so if you aren’t careful it can crack during forming. It’s also more costly than 5052, so make sure you know what you’re doing before getting started!

Aluminum 3003. At the commercial level, 3003 is the equivalent of a famous celebrity. Aluminum 3003 is combined with a small amount of manganese, making it stronger than other similar alloys. Like 5052, it’s great at combating corrosion and is easy to work with. The downside? 3003 isn’t quite up to par when it comes to anodizing processes.

BOB RENTON

Well the one I bought was made/sold by Champion - it was one of the few Aluminum rads that I found to fit my configuration. I don't know which or if it is an alloy - the site just says all Al (100%). Good point though.

 

[RJRENTON]

Interesting questions. My hunch tells me two small fans is not that big of a draw especially considering no A/C even with a standard alternator.

From Rock Auto, the standard alternator is 60 AMPs.

Suggest that you do your due diligence and investigate exactly which fan combination you'll be using, one or two fans, total amps consumed with one of both running, plus at least 15% greater alternator capacity to operate the rest of the vehicle plus any future equipment that may be added......all fans are rated in Cubic Feet/minute or horsepower consumed per motor. You may be surprised at the number....
BOB RENTON

 

[matchek]

Well the one I bought was made/sold by Champion - it was one of the few Aluminum rads that I found to fit my configuration. I don't know which or if it is an alloy - the site just says all Al (100%). Good point though.

-

Suggest that you do your due diligence and investigate exactly which fan combination you'll be using, one or two fans, total amps consumed with one of both running, plus at least 15% greater alternator capacity to operate the rest of the vehicle plus any future equipment that may be added......all fans are rated in Cubic Feet/minute or horsepower consumed per motor. You may be surprised at the number....
BOB RENTON

Yes these double fans looks like around 15 to 50 AMPs depending on the model and will matter a bunch especially if you have Air Con.

 

[mnewell337@gmai]

OK, adding my questions to the mix.

I have a 69 Charger with a new 440 stroker 6-pack engine and automatic trans. I am getting closer to getting it ready to run in the car for the first time (broken in on a dyno), and want to make sure the new cooling system is up to the task. The engine has a serpentine belt system on it, so I will be sticking with dual electric fans & shroud to go on a new radiator. The electrical system has been upgraded with a Power Master Alternator so no worry on power for the fans. I have a generic aluminium radiator in the car as a placeholder, but leery of using a radiator of unknown quality on this new engine. Also want to make sure the inlet/outlet connections are correctly placed since I have seen radiators with different locations for them.

So I am looking for a 26 inch radiator, for an automatic trans car, that can use a shroud with dual fans., and want to confirm outlet locations for 1 69 big block B-Body.

Mike

 

[69hemibeep]

Take it to a few radiator shops in Tucson until you find one that will recore it

 

[Black_Sheep]

Glen Ray has lengthy lead times but they are up front about it. That said, their workmanship is exceptional. Mine came back with new clamps, shroud to bracket hardware and the correct vent hose already installed. Lifetime warranty as well…

 

[RJRENTON]

Glen Ray has lengthy lead times but they are up front about it. That said, their workmanship is exceptional. Mine came back with new clamps, shroud to bracket hardware and the correct vent hose already installed. Lifetime warranty as well…

View attachment 1478384

Expensive but absolutely worth the $$$.
BOB RENTON

 

[RJRENTON]

Not for sure if you mean rows or tubes. A 26” 2 row 1” tubes like the ones from Made in the USA BeCool Radiators can easily cool 1000 HP motors idling in the Mojove Desert with the correct fans and so forth. The rows are 1.25” but the tubes are 1” if that makes sense.

An Idlng 1000 hp engine is NOT generating 1000 hp of waist heat regards of its location.....an unrealistic comparison. The amount of waste heat that the radiator must be capable dissipating is determined by the BTU's contained in the coolant (temperature) and the difference in ambient air temperature the radiator is exposed to and the in velocity of each in terms of feet/sec. Without specific values to calculate heat the exchange efficiency everything is just speculating or listening and believing in the guy trying to sell you his PRODUCT.......ASK FOR HIS CALCULATIONS THAT HE BASED HIS RECOMMENDATION UPON......if the person asking for the calcs, and doesn't understand them, just ask and we'll try and explain. Remember....its not the number of tubes, but surface area of the radiator's WW folds between the tubes....the more surface area available, the better the heat transfer will be.....just an additional talking point.....
BOB RENTON

 

[70ChargerRT]

An Idlng 1000 hp engine is NOT generating 1000 hp of waist heat regards of its location.....an unrealistic comparison. The amount of waste heat that the radiator must be capable dissipating is determined by the BTU's contained in the coolant (temperature) and the difference in ambient air temperature the radiator is exposed to and the in velocity of each in terms of feet/sec. Without specific values to calculate heat the exchange efficiency everything is just speculating or listening and believing in the guy trying to sell you his PRODUCT.......ASK FOR HIS CALCULATIONS THAT HE BASED HIS RECOMMENDATION UPON......if the person asking for the calcs, and doesn't understand them, just ask and we'll try and explain. Remember....its not the number of tubes, but surface area of the radiator's WW folds between the tubes....the more surface area available, the better the heat transfer will be.....just an additional talking point.....
BOB RENTON

Thanks for the enlightenment Bob. I will definitely do that.

 

[440plus6]

I see this being chatted up here and just wanted to throw out a couple of questions to everyone. I have a stock 383 in my 70rr that has been running quite hot. By the dash gauge it moves up quick to 200-230*,but I hear that those factory gauges can be off by 30 degrees or so. I have a 160* thermostat and when I run here in Arizona she gets very hot. The other day got back from a ride out to my buddies shop and it was about 80* outside and was 45mph moving traffic and the dash gauge went to to max.260*. When I got back the over flow tank (plastic) was boiling like a pan on the stove. Kinda scary!!
Went to pull the factory 22” out and noticed draining out the coolant that it seemed I never really got the 14.5 quarts + the engine blocks worth of coolant.
My buddy suggested that this old copper/brass factory radiator is done or plugged and to make the leap to a 2row aluminum unit and cooling problem solved. I’d like to keep a factory radiator in it cause that’s what came in it. Worked for 53 years why not another 53? The question to anyone is: Is it worth it to recore this original and maybe get it dipped and rodded or get a replacement factory or go aftermarket aluminum?
Sorry for the longgg speech!
Thanks!!

View attachment 1453149

Here is my two cents... My Charger was causing me grief by doing exactly what you describe your car is doing. I cringed at every redlight I hit with it and held my breath. My rides for enjoyment were stressful!! LOL!
I contacted Bob at Glen-Ray and immediately knew he was my solution. While I was aware that it was going to cost me a little more money, the interaction, high quality service and friendship I received from Bob was priceless. This radiator has made all the difference in my driving experience, my car runs cool at all temps/conditions. There are cheaper solutions perhaps, but I'm a Glen Ray fan for life. Can't wait to meet him at Carlise this year!

 

[ka0mek]

I have the official 70 Charger Service manual and there is a footnote to NOT use a 160F thermostat. The perfect operating temp is 190F from the Dodge engineers for a stock car. I haven't seen 190F thermostats, but I installed a 180F Mr. Gasket thermostat. Your radiator looks small like the ones that came from the factory without A/C. Even though I don't have A/C either, I bought the 26" alumuminum radiator with 3 rows (not 2) - these were recommended for cars that did have A/C - I verified this from the manual. Now I have a big tank with the maximum heat transfer. Aluminum is more conductive and dissapates better - much better option in warmer climates too.

Unless your car is a show car or you plan on selling it soon, I would buy a new 3 row 26" aluminum rad, but keep the old one when you plan on selling it - you can leave it up to the new owner what they want to do with it.

I also detailed on my thread that I thoroghly flushed with Thermocure and it and ran it the system for several days to clean the system. It was very dirty. I wanted a new rad anyway.

Also I would consider wiring a Bosch temp gauge to have your temperature double checked - 30F off seems way high. Not saying yours is doing that. I also posted a thread on this.

The Flowkooler water pump is another option. In your case in Arizona, it sounds like a good idea in addition to the larger rad.

Even if you are in Arizona, the car should still technically run normal with a 180F thermostat.

if its ro=unning goo cold try a 195 thats whats in the 1980's-90's
i had running hot issues so i put in a mopar high flow 160 u use to be able to buy a 185 high flow thermostat but they r not offered by chrysler any more u can get the exactly thing from mr gasket bt i was using a oem style copper/ brass max cool radiator ( for ac) its a 3 row it runs a bit cool in the winter but runs 180-190 now in the summer in traffic the 3 row aluminum will run way colder . it may not warm up enough to open uop the choke the carb (if u r useing a oem choke i dont know wht y r usei=und for carb of if it has a electric choke