Snapping lugs for real?

[Echothunder]

Ok, so I put some 15x10's wearing 295x50's on the back of my Charger.
When I stopped by my local tire shop one of the ol' timers looked me dead in the eye and said...
"if you put any power to the wheels you're gonna snap those lugs right off those wheels"

Now atm it is not a worry as I am still using the stock 318, though that is soon to change...(it wont be stock long or I'll get this other shop to sell me one of those 440's sitting around in the back.)

First thing I did was go to my back street and light em up... amazingly enough even with all that rubber that 318 busted em loose and broke traction...

My question is... Is this guy even remotely for real? Is this even a worry? Should I take the time to actually install new lugs or stronger ones (as if they exist?) Or just run it till I actually do break the lugs and then come on here screaming I did it, taking some kind of sadistic pride in breaking my car.

Opinions appreciated...

 

[65-440]

Just make sure they are torqued down and you'll be fine. Now maybe you'd have some problems with a set of slicks and a hard launch, but I wouldn't worry on the street ...

 

[2059]

I'd question it just by what he said,"if you put any power to the wheels you're gonna snap those lugs right off those wheels" What??? Technically, you can't snap lugs off of wheels... You could possibly snap them off the axle hub.... And I've never seen all of them snap unless you have a torque loss condition with the lug nuts and you drive the crap out of it until they all break. believe me you would notice this condition long before catastrophic failure. I've only ever seen it with trailer wheels. The only other thing I've seen is the center of steel wheels 'Collapse" which can cause a torque loss condition. As stated, Torque the lugs correctly and you should be fine. What kind of wheels? Steel, magnesium????. side note: I used 15x10 steelies on my '64 all the way through a 600+ HP Hemi, all was fine. I switched to Center Lines when I went to a 830HP Blown Piece in the car.

 

[BigBlock61]

A 1/2" bolt can handle 85 lb ft of torque. times that by 10 studs on the axle and you get 850 lb ft of torque that it theoretically can handle. I think you'll be fine.

 

[Cranky]

How much of the threads are in the lug nut? Do these wheels use the shouldered lug nuts? If you have the proper engagement of threads and the lug nuts fit the wheels like they are supposed to, then you should be good. Over the years I've had so many guys at tire shops tell me stuff is going to break or those cast aluminum wheels are junk and will leak air yada yada yada that it makes me ill. Even had one shop tell me my tires were balanced fine if they ran smooth at 55 (when the speed limits were 55 max) but didn't at 65. Told him if they are out of balance at 65, there were not right at any speed and to either do em right or give me my money back. Should have told him to explain why the lugs would snap off with a lot of power and then listen to him try and make up a story...

 

[Photon440]

A 1/2" bolt can handle 85 lb ft of torque. times that by 10 studs on the axle and you get 850 lb ft of torque that it theoretically can handle. I think you'll be fine.

That's the torque for tightening threads, but the actual shear strength of a grade 8 1/2" bolt is a little over 17,000 pounds. Like you say...he'll be fine.

The only time I've seen broken axle bolts is because they were loose.

 

[ws23jrt]

As others have said proper torque on the studs is needed.

Proper torque on the studs will clamp the wheel to the drum making a friction joint (wheel to drum). This friction joint takes the load. If the lugs were loose all the driving torque would be in shear on the studs. The design of the studs is primarily for their tensile strength to make the friction connection.

BTW I don't recall ever seeing a wheel stud that was "sheared" off. If one is sheared off then all of them must be sheared off.

 

[khryslerkid]

The only time I ever saw one sheared off was on a left hand thread, because the moron didn't know anything about Mopars! ( I guess that would be "twisted" off )

How many times have you seen someone break an axel? Those studs held up when that took place...

 

[Big Bad Dad]

Perhaps this is why NHRA did not allow the closed lug nuts, like on Cragers. etc. The stud had to protrude out past the end of the nut. (Probably because somebody ran studs that were too short, couldn't be seen, and had a failure?)

 

[ws23jrt]

The only time I ever saw one sheared off was on a left hand thread, because the moron didn't know anything about Mopars! ( I guess that would be "twisted" off )

How many times have you seen someone break an axel? Those studs held up when that took place...

I am one of those morons that "snapped off" lug nuts. (I was born a moron like all of us). It was my first car (57 desoto) And BTW they are hard to snap off with a lug wrench. I broke two off when my friend told me about left hand threads.
We all learn lessons and some are lasting.

 

[Kern Dog]

I'd go back to the tire shop and kick that guy in the dick.

 

[khryslerkid]

I'd go back to the tire shop and kick that guy in the dick.

Lol. You'll probably get you chance at the next car show you attend. There's always someone there like that...

 

[Kern Dog]

Holy ****...I had the most painful experience a few years ago...
Some idiot in a top hat walked by. I said "Nice hat." This set off a long monologue about how special and rare the hat was, how he had it custom made by some well respected hat shop in San Francisco... I walked away, the idiot followed me blabbing on and on.

 

[khryslerkid]

Lol! Was his name Abe? "Fourscore and seven years ago"....

 

[72Fourspeed]

He's a moron. I have 295s on my Rr with a 400/4speed & 3.55s. I light them up "a lot." You a'int gonna snap those lugs.

 

[patrick66]

The only time I have ever seen anyone snap lugs off an axle on the street is when a guy bought a '66 Belvedere I 383 four-door ex-Mississippi State Patrol car from me back in 1977. He swapped the stock wheels for a set of wider Ford steel wheels...as we all know, the register (center or bore) hole is smaller on a Ford than a Mopar; and this is why you can run Mopar wheels on a Ford, but NOT vice versa. Anyway, he puts these wheels and new tires on the rear of the Belvedere, and went to smoke off his impressive new tires...On the third pass down the street, both rear wheels left the car in a truly spectacular fashion. Snapped all ten rear lugs right off the car! The wheel, of course, was not on the axle completely, because of the smaller Ford wheel center hole. Didn't take long for that to show itself.

 

[MoparLeo]

It is obvious that no one here has ever been in the tire or brake service business back in the seventies or earlier. The guy who said that grade 8 bolts would be fine is correct. Except that they never put grade 8 bolts on the old cars. How many times would you use a head bolt ? How many times has that stud/lug nut been removed and torqued ( properly) in the last 40 years. 85 lbs. would be the torque for a new/old fastener. Wheels back then were not hub centric like current wheels are. That is the load is carried by the hub now, not the lug centered wheels of yesteryear. Current studs are much stronger than the 7/16, 1/2 " studs of old. The lug nut torque on most modern cars is 100 lbs. Check your books. As we all know, if a bolt is overtightened it will stretch. If tightened too much it will break. Agreed ? For torque to be accurate don't you need clean, rust/dirt free wheel seating surface, hub surface, wheel stud, lug surface ? If you treated an engine build like you do a tire change, how long do you think it would run properly ? Safety is no joke. I was in the tire biz back in the early seventies. Wheel offs were a very common problem especially if custom wheels were installed. It was never funny for the customer on the freeway when a wheel came off and passed him in traffic. Hopefully no accident happened for the driver or the guy on the other lanes of the freeway with a 100 lb. tire and wheel coming at him. Like the fellow who pointed out the lug nut rule for NHRA to visually see that the nut was being gripped by the full lengthy of the stud for safety. They might use grade 8 fasteners now. I would have to check but cars are a lot more complex and better made than any of our old cars were, honestly.

 

[Lets Roll]

Back before cd players existed I watched some guys in the street trying to change a tire. They were trying to get the wheel off and the last nut was so rounded nothing would grip it. It was entertaining because they had limited tools. I brought out some tools I had but nothing worked. They used chisels and 2lb hammer till they gave up and decided to snap what was left off. They actually used a tow chain through the wheel hooked to a truck to snap it off but only succeeded in dragging the car. They tried wedging a jack in the frame against the wheel too. I believe the car was a beater lemans. They never did get it off while I was there. Wheel studs are tough when they want to be.ha ha