Sniper charging requirements

[Daniel Foster]

I’m installing a Sniper EFI on my 68 Charger with a 383. I have a stock 60 amp alternator and voltage regulator. I am running the 550-510k with an in tank Sniper fuel pump, Hyperspark distributor, coil and ignition box. I don’t have any other aftermarket stuff on the car. Will I need to upgrade my charging system? Is there any harm in running the stock alternator?

 

[Don Frelier]

I have an MSD atomic with a 60 amp and it's fine.
You should be good to go.

 

[493 Mike]

I’m installing a Sniper EFI on my 68 Charger with a 383. I have a stock 60 amp alternator and voltage regulator. I am running the 550-510k with an in tank Sniper fuel pump, Hyperspark distributor, coil and ignition box. I don’t have any other aftermarket stuff on the car. Will I need to upgrade my charging system? Is there any harm in running the stock alternator?

Have you asked the injection system manufacturer?
Mike

 

[Daniel Foster]

I sent Holley an email. I figured I’d ask the guys running them on their Mopars as well.

 

[69L48Z27]

Your alternator is fine. What you want is a solid state VR the charges at idle. If your Sniper doesn’t see good voltage it won’t be happy. The solid state VRs should throw 13.2-14 at idle.

 

[69L48Z27]

If you’re current VR does that at idle you’re fine.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Stock alts aren’t even enough for the stock configuration unable to feed the required load at iddle… so go figure about adding stuff.

(things become worst being feeded from the wrong spot of the charging system)

 

[beanhead]

60A will be sufficient if you aren't adding more loads (electric fans, stereo amp, aftermarket A/C etc) but as was said it needs to provide enough power at idle which the factory units usually can't (because they didn't need to when they were designed)....and simply swapping to a higher-output alternator may not cure the low-rpm problem.
Another issue is RFI. Snipers in particular have trouble with noisy 60s-70s factory alternators, I've seen it firsthand more than once. I would recommend biting the bullet and swapping to a late-model unit. The ones for early 90s Toyota Landcruisers (something like the Denso 210-0106) have a V-belt pulley. The factory brackets can be made to work with some imagination, or the easy route is to buy the bracket kit made by AR Engineering.

 

[hunt2elk]

I can't help you at all with EFI, but will comment on your stock alternator and voltage regulator. 2 things, it won't charge at idle, and if you buy any of the current electronic voltage regulators, they regulate at around 14.7 - 15 volts. Just went through this on both my 69 B-bodies. I ended up buying a couple of new alternators that are equivalent to the 210-0106 like mentioned above as well as the AR bracket kits. Now they both charge 13.9 - 14 volts at idle and 14.2 volts while cruising. Nice upgrade imo.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

60A will be sufficient if you aren't adding more loads (electric fans, stereo amp, aftermarket A/C etc) but as was said it needs to provide enough power at idle which the factory units usually can't (because they didn't need to when they were designed)....and simply swapping to a higher-output alternator may not cure the low-rpm problem.
Another issue is RFI. Snipers in particular have trouble with noisy 60s-70s factory alternators, I've seen it firsthand more than once. I would recommend biting the bullet and swapping to a late-model unit. The ones for early 90s Toyota Landcruisers (something like the Denso 210-0106) have a V-belt pulley. The factory brackets can be made to work with some imagination, or the easy route is to buy the bracket kit made by AR Engineering.

60 amps would be quite enough as far is able to source at iddle what must source. Not every 60 amps alt is able to keep the load request at iddle. Full Alt specs must be considered.

The deal selecting high output capacity alts is more related to the lower speed output capacity than its full output capacity.

If you can get a 60 amps alt able to source 40 amps at iddle… great, but this is not common on stock Mopar alts. But some other brands can be close to that.

There are two kind of alts by its stator design… Y winding and Delta winding design. Mopar stock alts are Y design which are more unneficient for amperage capacity at low speeds, while Delta winding (tipically AC Delco alts… not sure is also Nippondenso too, mostly sure they are too) design are more efficient to keep better load capacity at low speed.

Supodselly (per what I read at some specialized website, not really by my knowledgement) the Y winding design was able to hold better the voltage rate at low speed hence why Chrysler opted by that design. But then the load capacity was sacrificed on this.

For a purist Mopar look alt (which I am), you will need an alt able spec’d at 80-100 amps to get a Charging system being sourced most of the time by the alt at iddle, keeping the batt out of the game. Now other alt systems/designs could be rated lowered and selected/installed if they are good enough at iddle per the car needs/demand.

 

[beanhead]

60 amps would be quite enough as far is able to source at iddle what must source. Not every 60 amps alt is able to keep the load request at iddle. Full Alt specs must be considered.

The deal selecting high output capacity alts is more related to the lower speed output capacity more than its full output capacity.

If you can get a 60 amps alt able to source 40 amps at iddle… great, but this is not common on stock Mopar alts. But some other brands can be close to that.

There are two kind of alts by its stator design… Y winding and Delta winding design. Mopar stock alts are Y design which are more unneficient for amperage caoacity at low speeds, while Delta winding (tipically AC Delco alts… not sure is also Nippondenso too, mostly sure they are too) design are more efficient to keep better load capacity at low speed.

Supodselly (per what I read at some specialized website, not really by my knowledgement) the Y winding design was able to hold better the voltage rate at low speed hence why Chrysler opted by that design. But then the load capacity was sacrificed on this.

For a purist Mopar look alt, you will need an alt able spec’d at 80-100 amps to get a Charging system being sourced most of the time by the alt at iddle, keeping the batt out of the game. Now other alt systems/designs could be rated lowered if they are good enough at iddle.

I know English isn't your strong suit Nacho....but that's pretty much what I said before. And keep in mind the OP is dealing with a Sniper which changes things a bit...
Thanks for your post but I reeeally don't need you to educate me on anything concerning electrical...

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Sorry, I’m actually being complementary on your info for the OP, not really saying anything wrong about your post… maybe I should be more specific about this LOL

 

[kiwigtx]

(things become worst being feeded from the wrong spot of the charging system)

Can you be more specific please - regarding the optimum position for the likes of a dedicated headlight supply point - starter relay, alternator output, or battery?

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Can you be more specific please - regarding the optimum position for the likes of a dedicated headlight supply point - starter relay, alternator output, or battery?

As I have mentioned on every ammeter and alternator/wiring upgrades threads (not just here at FBBO)…all cars with ammeter must get sourced every accesory anywhere between ammeter and alternator. Just like factory did. For correct reading and safer system. There is a reason for that. Is the way it must be wired!

Most of the burning process on charging systems our cars began adding accesories on batt side of the game (batt and starter relay) with stock alts and getting higher capacity batteries… WRONG. First upgrade alt, then if REALLY needed, batts. Then everybody blames the ammeter for failures When are the owners and mechs who made it wrong due ignorance about this. Mopar made it wrong just on rates, but not on the reason why wire it like that.

why not upgrade the batt before the alt? Imagine you change a water bucket for a huger bucket and is being refilled constantly after quite long time drain because the water line to keep it full is not enough being the original one designed for the original bucket. The refill line and the source will never stop trying to keep it filled and mostly sure the battery (bucket) will never get back its full level. The valve will never close.

Accesories on batt side can get a similar comparison: a WC tank with a leak. The floater valve will never reach its top lever to close the refill line. So the ammeter will keep constantly reading “water” flowing to the batt, like charging… still with battery being fully or allmost fully charged.

keep the unnecessary loads running throught the full system out of the game and just running on the required paths.

Some exceptions allowed like for example, power windows which tipically get the relay sourced on batt side of the amm stud, since these are not a constant sucker device and require a high load to work (specially rolling up the glasses). After get the windows operative (also while working), you will get for some seconds a Charge reading. Similar to what happens after crank the engine. Solenoid and motor are also sourced on batt side of ammeter. No reading of this load (Huge load) on ammeter while operating, just after engine is running to get back the battery to the full charge status

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Accesories on batt side can get a similar comparison: a WC tank with a leak. The floater valve will never reach its top lever to close the refill line. So the ammeter will keep constantly reading “water” flowing to the batt, like charging… still with battery being fully or allmost fully charged.

I should also mentioned… while engine is running and alternator is able to source it. For a while it will be no reading, but high load running to that side as soon you give throttle.

 

[threewood]

Need to....probably not.
Want to....I would suggest it.
An internally regulated alternator will produce a steady output at all rpms so it would seem to create a more stable system. A Denso type upgrade is very simple and requires only one new wire (from sense at alternator direct to battery) and two 3/4" thick spacers for mounting to the factory brackets. Gut the stock VR or bypass it