Solid roller, is it worth it?

[451Mopar]

I like solid roller cams. Building from scratch and knowing you have to buy all new pushrods, rocker arms, and maybe pistons the cost hit does not seem as bad as upgrading an already running engine.
Upgrading usually involves these costs:
Roller Cam
Solid Roller Lifters
3-Bolt timing chain set
Bronze oil pump drive
Cam button
ARP reduced head timing chain bolts to clear the cam button (regular bolts can work too, but the reduced heads make wrenching easier.)
New Valve springs that match the cam
(Not a given, but usually to match the springs) Valve retainers.
Stock heads may need the spring seats cut for dual springs
May need to shim springs for correct install height
Need to check piston to valve clearance. Some of the stock flat tops have small to no valve reliefs in them.
If using a mechanical fuel pump, might want to get the fuel pump pushrod with the bronze end.
Need decent quality adjustable rocker arms that can handle the higher valve spring pressures.
New pushrods, usually 3/8", 0.083" wall (Just looked at the receipt from Smith Brothers, with shipping was $251.89)

You could run into some of the same upgrade issues with a solid flat tappet too, buts won't need the cam button, bronze oil pump drive, and fuel pump pushrod.

 

[gkent]

So by the time you've done all that you may as well toss in a stroker kit and block machining and really kick some *** !!

FWIW I have almost $3000 invested in the items listed above that are deemed "necessary" to install and run a solid roller cam. The cam itself was only around $400 of that !!

 

[BSB67]

You want it, I say go for it. Best value/gain for the $?, probably not as you can get most of the way there with a SFT. But once you go roller you'll have most of the initial $ hit out of the way (lifters, springs and rockers) for your next build.

Cam talk aside, I'm a bit curious as to why your car is only trapping at 106 mph now, unless you have very poor atmospheric conditions. In decent conditions it should be trapping at 111 - 112 mph, I would think. A SFT should get you into the 11s

 

[kjalltrac]

You want it, I say go for it. Best value/gain for the $?, probably not as you can get most of the way there with a SFT. But once you go roller you'll have most of the initial $ hit out of the way (lifters, springs and rockers) for your next build.

Cam talk aside, I'm a bit curious as to why your car is only trapping at 106 mph now, unless you have very poor atmospheric conditions. In decent conditions it should be trapping at 111 - 112 mph, I would think. A SFT should get you into the 11s

You have a point there, It was close to 100 degrees and the bad air that day together with my 2-1/4 dual chamber mufflers,I think that hurt my mph.

 

[BSB67]

You have a point there, It was close to 100 degrees and the bad air that day together with my 2-1/4 dual chamber mufflers,I think that hurt my mph.

If you've only been to the track once, and you're serious about making your car run well, consider spending more time with what you have and doing serious track tuning. Here is what might happen: 1) you'll have a bunch of fun, 2) your car will systematically go faster, 3) you can save your money for the next move, 4) what your next move should be will become more clear.

 

[kjalltrac]

If you've only been to the track once, and you're serious about making you car run well, consider spending more time with what you have and doing serious track tuning. Here is what might happen: 1) you'll have a bunch of fun, 2) your car will systematically go faster, 3) you can save your money for the next move, 4) what your next more should be will become more clear.

It´s been to the track several times, that is the best et Ive got so far.
There are for sure some 0.1s left in the car.

Thank you all for your thoughts on the roller cam

 

[PRHeads]

Have you experimented at the track with timing, jetting, shift point changes?

Do you know what the rpm at the finish line is?

 

[Mike67]

I'm not an engine builder by any stretch but am not unfamiliar with it. With your goal of 11s with your set up I think your pretty close and the money you are talking about spending would probably be best spent in suspension/traction driveline upgrades. Caltracs, gear, TC, VB.
HR had an article similar to your build and it netted 530+hp/540tq, came back a couple of years later and did nothing but a cam swap to the XE275HL netted I think and additional 30 Hp& 40tq, the engine was baselines initially and was down like 20hp from the first build...
Just my .02
www.google.com/amp/s/www.hotrod.com/articles/how-you-can-build-a-stout-537hp-street-440/amp/

 

[dvw]

The cars I spoke of in the earlier post both have SS springs and stock style shocks. At the low 11 second level it doesn't take much. I'd drop the exhaust and see what happens. where is the timing at? I'd bet the converter could be looser as well. You should be able to run 11's with your current engine combo. There's a piece of the puzzle that's not happy.
Doug

 

[451Mopar]

I'm not an engine builder by any stretch but am not unfamiliar with it. With your goal of 11s with your set up I think your pretty close and the money you are talking about spending would probably be best spent in suspension/traction driveline upgrades. Caltracs, gear, TC, VB.
HR had an article similar to your build and it netted 530+hp/540tq, came back a couple of years later and did nothing but a cam swap to the XE275HL netted I think and additional 30 Hp& 40tq, the engine was baselines initially and was down like 20hp from the first build...
Just my .02
www.google.com/amp/s/www.hotrod.com/articles/how-you-can-build-a-stout-537hp-street-440/amp/

I agree. You can make alot of power and still run slow like me. I'm still running stock suspension, and even with M/T Street Radials (27"x10.5") my 60' are just under 1.8. They were actually better when I had less power. I have been looking at adjustable shocks and maybe putting 318 T-Bars in vs. the 0.990" ones in the car now.

 

[PRHeads]

With the current 106mph trap speed, unless there is some serious tire spin on the starting line that’s skewing the numbers, I’d try and figure out where the missing power is hiding.
It’s not going to run an “11” until he finds 5-6mph first.
Once it has 11 second mph....... then start taking a harder look at the rest of the car.

 

[BSB67]

With the current 106mph trap speed, unless there is some serious tire spin on the starting line that’s skewing the numbers, I’d try and figure out where the missing power is hiding.
It’s not going to run an “11” until he finds 5-6mph first.
Once it has 11 second mph....... then start taking a harder look at the rest of the car.

This.

His 60 ft really is pretty good for a the mph. If he threw a bunch of money for the perfect suspension/60 ft, the car would go 12.3s. Or, just find the missing hp, which should be free, and he'll be knocking on the door of 11s.

 

[kjalltrac]

It hooked upp really well, so no tire spin.
Had 36 degree of timing and 12.8-13 in afr.
The car is on jackstands at the moment, getting larger fuel line and a new fuel pump.

 

[BSB67]

It hooked upp really well, so no tire spin.
Had 36 degree of timing and 12.8-13 in afr.
The car is on jackstands at the moment, getting larger fuel line and a new fuel pump.

Turn off the afr, tune the carb squirter for best 60 ft, and jet for best mph. If doing this screws up your cruise afr, then you'll need to rework your power valve channel restrictions/jetting accordingly.

 

[kjalltrac]

Some pictures of the car might be fun to se fore some people

 

[PRHeads]

I think opening the headers at the track would be pretty high on my list of things to try.

What rpm are you shifting at?

Nice looking car!!

 

[kjalltrac]

I think opening the headers at the track would be pretty high on my list of things to try.

What rpm are you shifting at?

Nice looking car!!

I have cut outs that will be installed soon, so I will try that.
My shifts are at 5800-6000 rpm
Thanks, trying too keep it as stock appearing as possible.

 

[Hemirunner]

You have a point there, It was close to 100 degrees and the bad air that day together with my 2-1/4 dual chamber mufflers,I think that hurt my mph.

There’s a cork... I’m used to 2-1/4 primary tubes and considered my 3” exhaust “small”.. we dropped it and picked up mph.

 

[BSB67]

There’s a cork... I’m used to 2-1/4 primary tubes and considered my 3” exhaust “small”.. we dropped it and picked up mph.

And the details matter too. Age of the exhaust, compression or mandrel bent, 2 1/2" verses 2 1/4", tail pipes? I had a shockish 440 running in 104 to 108 mph range, and those things did matter. It did go almost 109 mph with full length 2 1/4" mufflers and 2 1/2" compression bent pipes. Wish I would have done a test with all 2 1/2" mandrel bent exhaust and mufflers. Don't know if it would have been worth 1 hp, or 20 hp.

He'll learn something for sure when he opens it up.

 

[kjalltrac]

And the details matter too. Age of the exhaust, compression or mandrel bent, 2 1/2" verses 2 1/4", tail pipes? I had a shockish 440 running in 104 to 108 mph range, and those things did matter. It did go almost 109 mph with full length 2 1/4" mufflers and 2 1/2" compression bent pipes. Wish I would have done a test with all 2 1/2" mandrel bent exhaust and mufflers. Don't know if it would have been worth 1 hp, or 20 hp.

He'll learn something for sure when he opens it up.

Full length mandrel bent 3" exhaust, dual chamber mufflers that necks down to 2-1/4" inside. X pipe