Spark plug diagnosing help, please!

[moparedtn]

That would lean out the cylinder for sure. Have seen that happen,install a straight pushrod and go.

You reckon that's all it needs?
Why did the damn thing bend to begin with, I wonder?
Worth a try, I guess. Worst that happens is it does it again.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Any of the PR ends blued from heat? Check that all the cups are oh and not blued. If that intake lash got a little loose,it could have spit the PR out of the cup.

 

[moparedtn]

Or the damn thing has managed to wipe another cam lobe and the PR was able to get out of the rocker socket that way...

 

[moparedtn]

Or the damn thing has managed to wipe another cam lobe and the PR was able to get out of the rocker socket that way...

Nope, I see lobe (*relieved*):

Pretty apparent that particular lobe hasn't worn quite the same as the adjoining ones, though. The pattern isn't as shiny and well-defined as its' neighbors.
I think it would be prudent to replace pushrod and rocker arm for #8 intake....

 

[moparedtn]

Pretty dang quiet out there. Reckon I need to start another thread on this?

 

[Ron H]

Those original rods in motor? when you installed cam you did new lifters as well I think you said but rods? interesting to ID what "caused" the rod bending. Check for lifter and rocker scoring/damage. Since you have it apart this far check the torque specs for the valves. Hopefully lobe/lifter doesn't show any signs of scoring/wearing. As you said the rebuild is a mystery including apparently different heads than you knew where on it; I wouldn't trust anything maybe the rod was out of spec...

 

[moparedtn]

Those original rods in motor? when you installed cam you did new lifters as well I think you said but rods? interesting to ID what "caused" the rod bending. Check for lifter and rocker scoring/damage. Since you have it apart this far check the torque specs for the valves. Hopefully lobe/lifter doesn't show any signs of scoring/wearing. As you said the rebuild is a mystery including apparently different heads than you knew where on it; I wouldn't trust anything maybe the rod was out of spec...

I think we can toss that "original" word out at this point.
Yep, cam and lifters are all I can claim.
Taking stock of this thing, it appears to be a combination of 1975 block, earlier forged bottom end internals and 1965 heads, timing & water pump housings.
Good thing all 440s take the same pushrods, anyways.
You see the pics - the lobe and lifter look like the others to me, anyways.

 

[mopar 3 B]

First thought was valve to piston contact but knowing a compression test has already been done and ok there is apparently no valve damage. The valve opens without binding so that should elimate guides and stem. That leaves the valve spring, lifter and rocker.
Have had pushrods bend before. Usually not push rod failure.

 

[moparedtn]

First thought was valve to piston contact but knowing a compression test has already been done and ok there is apparently no valve damage. The valve opens without binding so that should elimate guides and stem. That leaves the valve spring, lifter and rocker.
Have had pushrods bend before. Usually not push rod failure.

I hear ya. That little voice keeps saying "solid steel rods don't just bend on their own".
Yessir, compression test from a few months ago showed an eerily even 130psi across the board, with only a couple pounds deviation from low to high.
Pathetically low compression, but even. The thing doesn't burn a drop of oil, either, so I'm going to assume the bottom end is serviceable at least.

I think I want to play with that valve some more and see more specifically if I can get it to stick OPEN as opposed to closed - if that is happening, then I could see the pushrod jumping out from under the rocker and getting whambo'ed.
Better yet, I have a friend offering a set of 906 heads for the price of shipping.
VERY enticing offer indeed, if I want to get that far into this slapped-together engine.

I just wanted the thing to stay together long enough to get me into winter (and more favorable economic times, God willing). Reckon it's decided time's up now.
I've still got med bills from last bout with cancer and I've just been told today to expect more with a fresh diagnosis of thyroid issues as well now. :-(
All I know to do is keep plugging...

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

That is why I prefer adjustable rockers.If & when something starts wearing,staying on top of the lashings keeps you from getting lashed

 

[mopar 3 B]

Picking hardware to compliment the cam should be just as important as picking a cam. But often is not the case.

 

[moparedtn]

Picking hardware to compliment the cam should be just as important as picking a cam. But often is not the case.

Eh, my fault on that one. Working with next to zero budget.
The cam I chose is near stock in specs, so I figured the stock rockers and pushrods would suffice, never having experienced a valvetrain failure in a 440 before.
Of course, I was told the thing had been rebuilt, too...
So much for that.

 

[Cranky]

Stock valve train with a mild cam should work fine....but what are the specs on the cam and was it new with new springs when you installed it all? Do you know the specs (spring rate) on the springs? The installed height of the spring can affect the spring rate too. IF the installed height is more than what the cam calls for, then it'll be weak at the close AND opening so it's possible the valve may have floated a bit at higher rpm which could have let the push rod dance around a bit. Btw, they are hollow tubes and not solid and any long tube, solid or not is prone to vibrations that can cause flexing. Also, a lot of people will install springs without regard to what the installed height is supposed to be and that can be affected if the spring seats on the heads have been machined. Lots of variables when it comes to cam setup. As for the 516 heads....they are closed chamber at least so compression is better with them than open chamber heads but they usually come with a small exhaust valve. If the engine has been running good, I'm betting the cam is timed in the right place but with 130psi, I'm thinking the pistons are pretty far down in the hole (for 1975 they are) so hitting the pistons is probably not the problem.

 

[moparedtn]

Stock valve train with a mild cam should work fine....but what are the specs on the cam and was it new with new springs when you installed it all? Do you know the specs (spring rate) on the springs? The installed height of the spring can affect the spring rate too. IF the installed height is more than what the cam calls for, then it'll be weak at the close AND opening so it's possible the valve may have floated a bit at higher rpm which could have let the push rod dance around a bit. Btw, they are hollow tubes and not solid and any long tube, solid or not is prone to vibrations that can cause flexing. Also, a lot of people will install springs without regard to what the installed height is supposed to be and that can be affected if the spring seats on the heads have been machined. Lots of variables when it comes to cam setup. As for the 516 heads....they are closed chamber at least so compression is better with them than open chamber heads but they usually come with a small exhaust valve. If the engine has been running good, I'm betting the cam is timed in the right place but with 130psi, I'm thinking the pistons are pretty far down in the hole (for 1975 they are) so hitting the pistons is probably not the problem.

The cam is a Comp cam. Bought it and installed it last year; engine might have 2-300 miles on it since. Bought their lifters to go with it.
Specs:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-21-306-4

Spring info? No friggin idea. Again, this is the MYSTERY MOTOR, remember.
They're red.
'Course, you see that in the pics...
It is to be noted, however, that the old rockers and pushrods installed just fine when I did the cam and they're still "feeling" ok now - I didn't find any others with slop or binding in there.
This pushrod just, for some reason, went apeshiyat by itself.

It's quite apparent now that the former owner threw this engine together with whatever he had laying around the shop. The 516 heads aren't really acceptable in any scenario, though.
I just don't have any dough to make them go away at the moment.
Thyroid treatment begins tomorrow, in fact.
Hell, this might be all moot depending on what happens then, anyways, I suppose. :-(

Thanks, Cranky.

 

[moparedtn]

Update 8-24-16:
A good friend has kindly offered to run a set of 906's he has thru the machine shop for checking, cleaning and new seals for me - then he's going to ship them here!
That's unbelievably good news today, especially in light of the awful news I got at the specialist this morning.
I'm praying I can get them on the car and get it all buttoned back up before the medical shiyat hits the proverbial fan for me again.
I will not leave a mess for my wife.

 

[moparedtn]

I just watched a horror video on YT, wherein a fresh 440 rebuild had the one-bolt cam actually wear off the "dowel" pin on the end of it where the timing gear goes, wrecking his valvetrain and bending several pushrods.
The cam timing gear was literally spinning on top of the dowel pin, then falling back in place once the dowel came back around again!!

CRAP. I didn't need to see that.
Now I'm really worried. The cam I installed from Comp Cams is a one-bolt as well, that I put in along with a fresh Cloyes double roller timing set.

What are the chances something like that has happened here? Would the car run pretty much normally if that was going on, with the occasional hiccups you see mine doing in the video I posted??

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

LOL,stick a pushrod in that bitch,lets CRUZE!

 

[moparedtn]

LOL,stick a pushrod in that bitch,lets CRUZE!

Oops....

Spent about 4 hours today tearing it down. Heads are off, lots of pics to post...

 

[moparedtn]

Ok, since I have a pair of 906 heads on the way and I have a date with Dr. Death in the morning, I decided to tear it all down to get ready.
No idea when I'd feel up to it again, after all.
Lots of odd things discovered along the way!

Here come the pics:

A friend in California made these for me some time ago; polished them back up today. Maybe someday they'll be on an engine that matches the claim?

Cleaned up the intake gasket surfaces on the factory weighs a ton intake...

Gave the intake the ol' shot of silver. What the heck.

Drivers' side head is off. Cylinders not scored up that I could see. Mopped up antifreeze and took a pic. Flat top pistons, way down in their bores (looks like the top ring is getting within 1/2" of deck; what's that mean the piston tops are getting to? Nowhere near high compression, I'd bet.

Drivers' side head. Ghostly exhaust valves are on #5 and #7. Coolant getting in there?

Taking note of wiring so I don't have to remember it later...

More coming next post....

 

[moparedtn]

Passenger side up next:

Similar hodgepodge to drivers' side, least to me. Cylinders feel smooth, top ring only getting within about a 1/2" of deck.

Passenger head. 3rd intake down is the one that bent the pushrod. Obviously something weird has been going on in there.
Covered everything up, cleaned up shop.

Oh, the head gaskets were the thin sheetmetal type w/no sealant evident.
Pitched, along with old intake bathtub. Unfortunately, the really good looking Mr Gasket header gaskets are a loss because some nimrod (that would be me) glued them to the heads previously.
I already have the Mopar Performance intake set waiting along with new ARP intake bolts.
I'll be using my favorite FelPro head gaskets, the blue ones. I know they don't help with compression ratio, but they just plain work.

What do you all see in these pics? Any reason I can't just reassemble the engine with the 906's? Any helpful hints on procedures or such?
I get the feeling I'm going to get one shot at this; I'd just as soon do it right.