Starter heat shield ideas

[Kern Dog]

The starter has a "nose" on it that is supposed to slip into a recess in the transmission. I have accidently installed a starter while not noticing that the mounting face of the starter wasn't sitting flush to the transmission. I got grinding noises from that.
This is in NO way an insult or a jab at you BUT are you certain that the starter is bolted in flush?

 

[1 Wild R/T]

The starter has a "nose" on it that is supposed to slip into a recess in the transmission. I have accidently installed a starter while not noticing that the mounting face of the starter wasn't sitting flush to the transmission. I got grinding noises from that.
This is in NO way an insult or a jab at you BUT are you certain that the starter is bolted in flush?

I agree.. And like Greg said not meant as a jab, it's tough to do this kind of work laying on your back..... Especially as we get older...

 

[hunt2elk]

Yeah Joel, it's a tight fit. My forearms and hands look like they went though a meat grinder.
BTW, been following your build thread. Seems a lot of your roadblocks are vendor related, feels like mine are more self induced. I liked your post "I'm going to win".

And you will win also. Sometimes you just need to take a little break to get in a different mindset.

 

[CoronetDarter]

The starter has a "nose" on it that is supposed to slip into a recess in the transmission. I have accidently installed a starter while not noticing that the mounting face of the starter wasn't sitting flush to the transmission. I got grinding noises from that.
This is in NO way an insult or a jab at you BUT are you certain that the starter is bolted in flush?

No insult taken Greg; just the opposite I appreciate the input. At this point I can't say definitively that the starter is mounted correctly. I'm going to take a closer look this weekend.

 

[CoronetDarter]

I agree.. And like Greg said not meant as a jab, it's tough to do this kind of work laying on your back..... Especially as we get older...

I've hung around Greg enough to be insulted when he doesn't throw a jab at least once during a conversation.
Laying on my back, squeezing my hands through the spark plug access hole, it all adds up. Two of us spent the better part of Saturday r&r'ing the starter. No doubt nerves are frayed and bodies are tired after 7 - 8 hours. Taking a fresh look this weekend.

 

[CoronetDarter]

So Colorado Dave stopped by today. He climbed underneath the car, put his right hand over the starter, began talking in tongues, and after about 30 seconds came back up and told me to give it a try. Fired up on the first crank! We tried it twice more to be sure. Dave has the magic touch.
Cruised around this afternoon, got gas with no issues. The starter still won't turn over within 1 minute; but will at 3 minutes. At this point the reason points to the battery, but until I have it load tested I can live with 3 minutes.

 

[MoparGuy68]

I used to go through the stock reduction gear starter every 2+ years in my 71 Challenger. How can I keep the starter cool in hot AZ? The answer came in the form of Ceramic Fiber Insulation Blanket material. This stuff in used to insulate fireplaces and can withstand about 2300 degrees F. I had found a place that sold me a smaller piece of it. It normally comes in rolls.

I wrapped it around a remanufactured stock starter, shielding it from the engine block and header pipes. I did this in 1989, and never had to buy another starter. In 1998 when I sold the car, it still had the same starter in it with the insulation blanket wrapped around it. So at that point the starter had been performing without issues for 9+ years..

I just removed the stock starter from my Bee today. And will probably do the same thing again on this car.

 

[coloradodave]

I used to go through the stock reduction gear starter every 2+ years in my 71 Challenger. How can I keep the starter cool in hot AZ? The answer came in the form of Ceramic Fiber Insulation Blanket material. This stuff in used to insulate fireplaces and can withstand about 2300 degrees F. I had found a place that sold me a smaller piece of it. It normally comes in rolls.

I wrapped it around a remanufactured stock starter, shielding it from the engine block and header pipes. I did this in 1989, and never had to buy another starter. In 1998 when I sold the car, it still had the same starter in it with the insulation blanket wrapped around it. So at that point the starter had been performing without issues for 9+ years..

I just removed the stock starter from my Bee today. And will probably do the same thing again on this car.

This is a good solution for some situations. I used to use that material in my woodstove/fireplace business. On big blocks with headers, unfortunately, there is almost no room to place 1/2" to 3/4" thick material around the starter...

 

[coloradodave]

So Colorado Dave stopped by today. He climbed underneath the car, put his right hand over the starter, began talking in tongues, and after about 30 seconds came back up and told me to give it a try. Fired up on the first crank! We tried it twice more to be sure. Dave has the magic touch.
Cruised around this afternoon, got gas with no issues. The starter still won't turn over within 1 minute; but will at 3 minutes. At this point the reason points to the battery, but until I have it load tested I can live with 3 minutes.

Rich, Sorry to hear my heavenly fix didn't solve the hot soak problem. Since my car is down for a few days, if you want to come by and borrow one of my Group 27 Diehards to test (1000 CCAs), just PM me or call. I'll PM my number to you.
Dave

 

[CoronetDarter]

Cruised over to Dave's house, turns out he's about 3 - 4 miles from me. He's running dual batteries. We swapped out mine for one of his, drove home, shut her down, and she fired right up. Shut 'er down, and she'd fired right back up. The last piece of the puzzle. Hey Dave, aren't batteries like kidneys, you only need one.

 

[Kern Dog]

I don't recall....Is your battery in the trunk, Rich ?

 

[Wietse]

Good to hear it turns out to be a poor battery, saves you some hours underneath the car again!

I don't recall....Is your battery in the trunk, Rich ?

Would the longer wiring have any effect on starting power?
Losses in the cable?

 

[CoronetDarter]

Good to hear it turns out to be a poor battery, saves you some hours underneath the car again!



Would the longer wiring have any effect on starting power?
Losses in the cable?

Yes it would. Most people run 1/0 welding cable to the starter from the trunk; besides the larger size the welding cable is multi-strand so it's somewhat flexible.

 

[CoronetDarter]

I don't recall....Is your battery in the trunk, Rich ?

It is. And as we were swapping batteries last night another thought came to mind. During the resto I repurposed the original negative cable from the batt to block and attached it to the body (metal to metal with star washers). But the neg cable should be 1/0 too so I'm going build another cable with the leftover 1/0 in my garage.

 

[Kern Dog]

There are many ways to skin a cat.
I ran a 1/0 cable from the FORD starter relay in the trunk through the interior and directly to the starter. I have a trigger wire that energizes the starter. For grounds, I have the battery negative to the chassis. I have the block to the battery negative and the engine block to the chassis as well.

 

[CoronetDarter]

There are many ways to skin a cat.
I ran a 1/0 cable from the FORD starter relay in the trunk through the interior and directly to the starter. I have a trigger wire that energizes the starter. For grounds, I have the battery negative to the chassis. I have the block to the battery negative and the engine block to the chassis as well.

My setup is exactly like yours on the positive side. I'm using the factory drilled hole on the trunk hinge bracket for the batt negative, 1/0 from the front frame rail to the engine block, and then a new braided cable from the firewall to block.

 

[CoronetDarter]

Wound up buying a Group 65 battery at Costco this weekend. The 65 and 27 are very similar but the 65 had higher CCA - 850 vs 810 and 1000 CA.
Also replaced the neg batt cable with the 1/0. Bought a HD lug crimper, the kind you pound on with a 3-4 lbs sledge hammer. This tool is a must have if you're crimping 1/0; it goes up to 4/0.
Took it on a test drive to get it to operating temp. The starter turns over immediately after shut-off, multiple times. Hot start issue solved. All it took was replacing the starter, battery, and cable but at least I don't need a heat shield.

 

[Kern Dog]

I like the sarcasm.
I rebuilt the engine but at least I didn't need new spark plugs....

 

[coloradodave]

Yahoo!! Meanwhile, how's the work on the Opel GT coming?

 

[CoronetDarter]

Yahoo!! Meanwhile, how's the work on the Opel GT coming?

The front brakes are done. We started working on the rear suspension. Installed 1" lowering springs along with Koni shocks. Changed out all the rubber bushings for poly. Got a little hung up because now the trailing arm bushings are off by 1/8" in the mounting brackets. I have the panhard rod secured hand-tight and upon research I need to disconnect it completely to release all preload on the suspension. Should finish up this weekend.