The 440 that was in my 70 V-code Roadrunner won't be down for breakfast...

[69sunfireGTX]

Did you ever notice when an engine is running better than it ever has is when it goes BANG!

 

[Cranky]

Oh man! That does suck. So far I've never had a Mopar blow up while in my hands (lucky?) but I tired my best on a couple of them. Had a race engine break a valve spring just before the lights turning 7k but it didn't blow up. Couldn't believe it! It broke a main spring but the inner and damper hung on and on tear down, you could see where the piston was helping that valve (intake) stay in place. Looked like the valve relief and the valve was a perfect match and the valve wasn't even bent. Lost two complete coils from the main and didn't find anything bigger than 1/16th" in the pan and the lower end back 4 rods and pistons looked like they got shot with a 410 shot gun. Weird thing was the cylinders didn't have any damage either. The roller cam was damaged though when the pushrod was allowed to exit and the lifter spun on the cam before it made it's exit. It lost oil pressure and the bearings showed that but no damage to the crank either. It's always amazing to me how a low rpm failure can cause so much damage when a high rpm failure doesn't....

 

[Justasgood]

View attachment 1534186
This is the only pic I can get for now. Block definitely has a window in it. My best guess is the hardware on a rod end broke? but I'm really not certain. It looks like a rod became detached from the crankshaft.
For now, I have to get through the week of Cruisin the Coast, and then really focus on work. I'll pick at the 440 as time allows.
I notified my engine builder, so he knows the situation. He has been OUTSTANDING working with me, not only on the parts for the build but other stuff I bought from him before.

Who is your builder? If I may ask…..

 

[4406bbl]

Did you ever notice when an engine is running better than it ever has is when it goes BANG!

YES!!! And with a big block mopar with stock rods, good rod bolts, and stock weight pistons it is almost always because the rods are stretched, raising the compression after a missed shift or broken trans, or driveline. They run better than ever then boom driving along normally later. You should know your compression after a rebuild and test it after an over rev, any increase change the rods.

 

[blue69runner]

What year or date it was made. I was reading that the early 440 motor where better than the latter model motor. Is this right. Due to emission standards. Sorry for your luck. I am crying overeating a radiator. Not a good day either.

 

[440 PHIXX]

What year or date it was made. I was reading that the early 440 motor where better than the latter model motor. Is this right. Due to emission standards. Sorry for your luck. I am crying overeating a radiator. Not a good day either.

I think the ‘75-‘79 blocks are the most desirable from a construction viewpoint. The motor mount ears are .25 thicker, they have the figure 8 cooling passages, and supposedly less core shift. I’m not sure about that last one but the other 2 are desirable. At the end of the day, all the 440 blocks with a girdle can handle 600hp.

 

[blue69runner]

Thanks, I see one on Craigs list for 2000. It is a 73 motor, so the guy says. Suppose to be rebuilt.

 

[beanhead]

Dammit Bio that's a real bummer.
That was a heckuva good engine...

... extra motivation get that 572 rollin'!

 

[threewood]

That sucks. I'm curious to see the internals too.

I've only had one engine eat itself and it was a 2.2 Turbo 2. Driving on the freeway and then it sounded like gravel in a pan for a second and then dead. Dropped a valve, destroyed the head, cracked the block, bent a rod.

 

[biomedtechguy]

71 440. I only know it has the 6bbl harmonic balancer, "eyebrow" piston valve reliefs, stock bore, and a Purple Stripe 292°/.509 cam. 452 heads. I installed the CompCams: valve springs, because the stock ones were WAY worn out (weak), locks and retainers, and new hydraulic flat tappet lifters, and new stock pushrods while I was "in that neighborhood". That all began with a bad lifter, and what I (correctly) thought were weak springs. When I first got the car, after I got the 6bbl working properly, only a few hundred RPMs after the HARD pull started it would literally fall on its face. AFTER the valvetrain component changes, it DEMANDED that I let it spin to 6k (6,200 actually). I absolutely wasn't forcing it, I didn't even have a tach, I could just feel what it wanted!

That was a heckuva good engine...

It really was, especially if you look at the parts list. I have to believe the cam w/upgraded parts and the 6bbl intake and carbs, and 1⅞ TTi headers are what made it pull so hard to 6k+.
I was really hoping to keep it as a spare.
Oh well, onward and upward!

 

[biomedtechguy]

Who is your builder? If I may ask…..

John Mercedes, Southeast Performance. He's in Tampa, but I believe the shop is on "NASCAR ROW" or something similar in South Carolina? I am not the type to say this, but it doesn't matter to me. John has gone above and beyond to earn my trust and business.
Bill Mitchell speaks highly of John as a rep for his blocks.
John has a special affinity for all things MOPAR, and he shows it by helping US in as many ways possible.
Before I bought my "new improved" BMP big bore aluminum RB block through him, he got me some deals on Dakota Digital and Viking shocks, and I'm thrilled with the pricing on everything else.
I've seen videos and read testimonials, and it's also my understanding that he is uniquely positioned as a Dakota R/T and Viper "go to guy".
I am really looking forward to the 572 under the hood. Black Tracking from a 50 roll is going to be a HOOT.

 

[1KoolBee]

Sorry for your loss, that “bang” always makes you sick inside. Lots of reasons engines can fail. Here’s a situation to watch out for on your next build that I ran across when I was building my 500-6. It has new eagle rods with 8740 ARP cap screws. Plenty strong for a street motor. I was torquing the rod bolts using the bolt stretch method. I would basically measure, torque to 5lbs under recommended torque, remeasure, then ad 3 lbs and keep measuring until I reached recommended bolt stretch. All the bolts basically wanted 3-5 lbs more than recommended torque to reach recommended stretch…. Except for one. It reached recommended stretch at 8 lbs before recommended torque. I moved it to another rod and same thing. I pulled it, threw it away, and ordered a new bolt as it wasn’t worth the risk for $11. Installed the new bolt and it behaved exactly like the others. Im pretty sure the bad one would have been the one to fail first, because at recommended torque, it was overstretched. Not sure if it was overtorqued by Eagle or bad metallurgy by ARP. This is why I always use the stretch method to tighten rod bolts now.

 

[padam]

Sorry for your loss, that “bang” always makes you sick inside. Lots of reasons engines can fail. Here’s a situation to watch out for on your next build that I ran across when I was building my 500-6. It has new eagle rods with 8740 cap screws. Plenty strong for a street motor. I was torquing the rod bolts using the bolt stretch method. I would basically measure, torque to recommended torque, remeasure, then ad 3 lbs and keep measuring until I reached recommended bolt stretch. All the bolts basically wanted 3-5 lbs more than recommended torque to reach recommended stretch…. Except for one. It reached recommended stretch at 8 lbs before recommended torque. I moved it to another rod and same thing. I pulled it, threw it away, and ordered a new bolt as it wasn’t worth the risk for $11. Installed the new bolt and it behaved exactly like the others. Im pretty sure the bad one would have been the one to fail first, because at recommended torque, it was overstretched. Not sure if it was overtorqued by Eagle or bad metallurgy by ARP. This is why I always use the stretch method to tighten rod bolts now.

View attachment 1536138

That’s a lot of good information. It’s not logical for us to think that high end performance parts would be defective out of the box.
But when building a racing engine, it doesn’t cut it to trust anything.

People think that hand made or custom made parts are the best. But in my experience, witnessed first hand through manufacturing, a really good mass production system is the best way to turn out quality products.

But what we are mostly doing requires attention to every detail.

 

[Billccm]

That’s a lot of good information. It’s not logical for us to think that high end performance parts would be defective out of the box.
But when building a racing engine, it doesn’t cut it to trust anything.

People think that hand made or custom made parts are the best. But in my experience, witnessed first hand through manufacturing, a really good mass production system is the best way to turn out quality products.

But what we are mostly doing requires attention to every detail.

There is a phenomenon in the semiconductor industry that Noise Figures actually go down after the first few wafers are fabricated (which is several hundred thousand integrated circuits). No one really knows exactly why except the process parameters seem to just tighten up.
The same for production of receivers and transmitters as the more you build the tighter the performance parameters become.
Here is where these phenomenon cease in production:
COST REDUCTION
The offshore guys are the kings of COST REDUCTION. This is why quality starts slipping as a process step is skipped or a QA test is only performed on every third or fourth item in production. This is why we have 'chinesium'.

 

[Budnicks]

Sorry to hear that Steve/Biomed

good thing didn't hurt you or anyone/anything else,
non #s at least, but still the demise of another RB/440

I've spun rod bearings in a couple 2 different 440s/RBs
way back in the day, resized stock rods & reground cranks
with no signs of it going bad
& all of a sudden, knocking like crazy
never in my 383's/400's, or an of my strokers, albeit better parts
& beefier main webs on the 400s, never had main problems, just rods
I drove them all the same too
I've had sort of bad luck, on the RB blocks
make good power, they will tend to break, eventually

love the 65 GTO too

good luck with the new 572 build, now you have a great reason to
git r dun

 

[HawkRod]

It’s not logical for us to think that high end performance parts would be defective out of the box.

I agree, but I am now jaded as I have seen a lot of brand new parts from well known suppliers that failed right out of the box.

In one case, I had connecting rods that were all beyond spec on the big end. OK, it was only a couple of tenths, but it was still a couple of tenths beyond the high end of the spec. And you really want rods to be on the low end of the spec. This is critical because you need the crush on the bearings to make sure they don't spin and make your engine go "bang".

In another case, a brand new set of aluminum heads had a problem with the middle two exhaust valve seats. The valve guides were very tight, but the valve seats had been ground offset by .004". You couldn't see anything wrong, but when we tried a leak down test to assure everything was tight they leaked like a sieve, and we had to redo the seats on the head to get them right. They might have "worn themselves" into working OK once the car ran a bit, but they also could have constantly leaked and ultimately caused a burned valve.

The bottom line is: trust nothing and check everything.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Here’s a situation to watch out for

I have to rely on the builder.
The original guy I wanted retired, and I'd trust him to build an engine my life depended on, and he's a member here. Even if he would have agreed, I have taken 3 years to put the money together, sending it in chunks for things, and I'm still not finished, so that wouldn't have worked out anyway.
BUT
I also trust the builder I have. John has been nothing but considerate, occasionally "fussy" when I relay what "the forum says" (and I get that) but not his first rodeo, so it's all going to be up to him to get right.
The B3 Racing Engines valvetrain geometry correction kit and the "special" T&D rocker arms that I bought from Michael Beachel was the only real thing I was ready to go to the mat over, because I very strongly believe in the entire concept and solution that Michael wrote about in his "series" on that topic. In summary, the way I see it, if the valvetrain is lined up to do what it's intended to do: open and close the valves, and it's not exerting forces at angles that are not specifically accomplishing that task, I should see less wear, less adjustment required, and NO broken valvetrain parts. It may run a bit better too...

 

[1KoolBee]

Sorry to hear that Steve/Biomed

good thing didn't hurt you or anyone/anything else,
non #s at least, but still the demise of another RB/440

I've spun rod bearings in a couple 2 different 440s/RBs
way back in the day, resized stock rods & reground cranks
with no signs of it going bad
& all of a sudden, knocking like crazy
never in my 383's/400's, or an of my strokers, albeit better parts
& beefier main webs on the 400s, never had main problems, just rods
I drove them all the same too
I've had sort of bad luck, on the RB blocks
make good power, they will tend to break, eventually

love the 65 GTO too

good luck with the new 572 build, now you have a great reason to
git r dun

These were American bolts before they went Chinesium. Bottom line, everything is suspect, especially these days!

 

[Krooser]

Thanks guys...
I made a nice cruise Sunday with my wife and her grandson, I even got on it a few times, did a burnout for some spectators along the route, all good, same as always.
Everything on the highway and slow in town was fine, until it wasn't.
Even crazier, I knew the day we test drove my wife's 421 Tripower GTO that it was going to need a rebuild, extremely low oil pressure at normal temperature at idle, and I heard rod knock in a RPM range about 1½ years after we bought it.
The big end of a connecting rod bearing half was literally cracked into 2 pieces but it was running when I brought it in for the rebuild.
My 440? No notice, AT ALL, just a sudden and unexpected "SEE YA!"

Did you have your hearings aids turned off? Hehehe

 

[biomedtechguy]

Did you have your hearings aids turned off? Hehehe

Fortunately I don't have any problems with my hearing, still have a full head of hair w/very little gray...
The loud "clank" sound when the engine went out was hard to miss.