The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

joe smith

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Out "here" in the Mojave desert, the major complaint is Not Enough Charging stations and...they are waiting hours to Charge due to lines.


:thumbsup:
Can you imagine an overpopulated area, like Tampa Bay FL??... There is NO where to park as it is...
 

f569

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Double the voltage in USA.....halve the current....simple terms, but it makes sense.

When that is completed....remember where you heard it first. :thumbsup:
Are we talking transmission lines or from the low voltage transformers to the actual dwellings? If the latter (208 to 480), panels, breakers, light fixtures, appliances, etc. would have to be replaced by the property owner.
Not too sure if the high tension side is equipped to handle that change right out of the box but those voltages are already pretty high (at least 4160, 13.8 and much higher than that over long distances). Hey, I like your suggestion, I'm in. We are in the switchgear and panel manufacturing business!
 

Cranky

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my house, built in 1988-89
Just the change of the old propane & electric heater
replaced with a modern/new 'all-electric HVAC unit',
we didn't even have AC prior to 2010-ish,
only a huge inefficient swamp cooler/"whole house fan" :jackoff:
on the roof, 1989 tech.
it cut my electric bill in 1/2, even in the winter months
& my dad turning it up to 70* all the damn time
& I don't need or hardly use any propane anymore
($3,000+ a year savings, way, way more today, it's dbl'd in price)
I only use like 100cuft a year now, only my water heater is still propane
I 'use to' use almost 2 times that a month, in the winter alone...

I can have the AC on 75* all summer, 90*-100*+
(when my dad doesn't put it at 80*, he's always cold)
& still not have anywhere near the expense...
or usage prior...

I did all the low wattage, compact fluorescents lights everywhere too, :jackoff:
about the same time, 11wt usage for a 35-40wt bulb/lums
I'm just now having to replace a few of them...
With LED lights...

my PG&E averages $125 a month, maybe,
some bills in the fall & spring, are only like $70 a month
(we don't have any wind or solar BS either)
we did do more insulation 'blown in' 12"s, in the attic', at the same time too
it used to be average $280-$310 in winter, before even paying for propane
that was another $300 a month min.
$125-$175 in summer with no AC, it's about $4,000 a year in savings

I can actually go out & read exact usage anytime
we rarely have much more than the fridge, the TV, my computer,
the landline phones chargers/answering machine,
a couple old lil' alarm clocks/radios
& 1 or 2 lights here or there, whatever room we are in if needed
pretty minimal usage...
I just looked at it, it said right now (a few mins ago) lights,
3 on a ceiling fan fixture in my office
(11wts draw each, the TV & my computer & the fridge/freezer, 2 clocks, phones)
going from 90wts, to when the fridge kicks on 'spike to 275wt'
& settles back down to about 220wt, till the fridge motor stops,
then back down to about 90wt...

when the heater kicks on it's a 2,000wt spike, settles to like 1,200wt draw
like 10 min.s every hr, when it's cold, it does get cold in Calif. too

electronics, pumps fans motors & appliances especially are
far more efficient than 'they ever were', way back in the 80's at a min.,
leaps & bounds different, when this place was built...

time to update for some people
bite the bullet now & save a ton later, for years to come

:luvplace:
My usage is way down since I'm single now....

Are we talking transmission lines or from the low voltage transformers to the actual dwellings? If the latter (208 to 480), panels, breakers, light fixtures, appliances, etc. would have to be replaced by the property owner.
Not too sure if the high tension side is equipped to handle that change right out of the box but those voltages are already pretty high (at least 4160, 13.8 and much higher than that over long distances). Hey, I like your suggestion, I'm in. We are in the switchgear and panel manufacturing business!
A buddy of mine had a house that was 3 phase for all of the major appliances and his light bill was fairly cheap. It was cheaper than mine and he had a much bigger house and kept it cooler....
 

F4R/T

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My crew and I on our way to Columbus, found the best use for the charging stations around our area...
:lol:

E2D94D2E-8B60-4CA2-981B-28CD7A155407.jpeg
 

mpgmike

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120 years ago the power plant contenders were electric, gasoline, and steam. Electric was the most popular followed by steam. Automotive gas engines came in 3rd!
 

multimopes

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I heard way long ago that it was very expensive to produce hydrogen. However, I saw a story, also way long ago on a science show on PBS, about an experiment with Hydrogen as a potential fuel source. It involved researchers from major US colleges & institutions. They proposed trying to make hydrogen from sea water using solar power and they were successful. To test it's safety & usefulness, they used some small town in the mid west, and converted a number of vehicles to burn hydrogen. I believe they used altered natural gas kits for that. In addition, they converted a number of houses that used gas to use hydrogen as well, including gas stoves. But before they attempted it, they tested the safety side first. To do this they took a cylinder of natural gas and a cylinder of hydrogen & fired a high powered, explosive projectile at it and filmed the resulting explosions in slow motion. Since the hydrogen was lighter, most of the fire plume went up , instead of out like the other one. Although the shrapnel went in every direction anyway. From what I recall, when food was cooked with hydrogen, it came out moister. Also one of the byproducts from it's combustion was water but a lot less pollution. There were no accidents using it if memory serves me. I also under stand that the experiment results were classified as because it was deemed a plausible new fuel would upset the entire oil producing and oil consuming world, which made perfect sense back then & even now. Remember, this was some 40 years ago and me being a pre-geezer now, I could have a distorted my recollection of this; but it sure rings a bell in my noggin! Let's face it, unless something new generates an almost immediate & enormous profit, no one wants to invest in it at all.
 

mpgmike

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Hydrogen is considered a "battery", as it takes energy to separate it from water, but you get most of that energy back using it.

Most commercial bottled hydrogen is derived from natural gas (CH4). The resultant H2 gas is tainted with trace carbon. For an engine, that's no problem. With the hydrogen fuel cells, the carbon contaminates the membranes like tetraethyl lead contaminates a catalytic converter (well, maybe not as quickly). Ocean water contains salt (NaCl or sodium chloride). The electrolyzed hydrogen contains chlorine gas, and trace amounts of hydrochloric acid. Even something as simple as generating hydrogen has its commercial challenges.
 

super-bee_ski

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My usage is way down since I'm single now....


A buddy of mine had a house that was 3 phase for all of the major appliances and his light bill was fairly cheap. It was cheaper than mine and he had a much bigger house and kept it cooler....

:rofl:

:thumbsup:
 

WileERobby

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So the statitics I have read say that NO MATTER what America does ( we are already one if not the CLEANEST polluter in the world) NONE of it matters without EITHER India OR China cleaning up....
And China is building close to 1000 new Coal power plants??
Again, NOTHING America does will change Global climate change without India AND China totally transforming their ways of power production...
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnKUHDC8cYfPW5htHTeCs6M5qa7XWenspxcA&usqp=CAU.jpg
 

GetX'd

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That would be cool, if they can get a hydrogen distribution system in place.
BMW tried hydrogen power 18 years ago... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Hydrogen_7
@Photon440 I read most of your posts because you seem to have a depth of knowledge many of us don’t have. You come with facts and figures etc. I appreciate that and learn from what you post. I, myself noted in an earlier post on this subject how George W Bush clearly stated in one of his early State of the Union addresses that we would all be driving hydrogen powered vehicles in (I forget the time frame) not to distant future. Frankly that encouraged me - it gave me hope in the future - however like most of what these con men state - it never happened. A couple of years back my wife and I called a Uber to pick us up at the airport. The guy that showed was driving a hydrogen powered vehicle. I was enamored by the technology. He told me a lot about his vehicle on our drive home. I’m no engineer but I had/have wishes that that be the way the future takes us. At this time it doesn’t seem probable - but one can still hope. Thx for the great information posts of yours.
 

Photon440

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@Photon440 I read most of your posts because you seem to have a depth of knowledge many of us don’t have. You come with facts and figures etc. I appreciate that and learn from what you post. I, myself noted in an earlier post on this subject how George W Bush clearly stated in one of his early State of the Union addresses that we would all be driving hydrogen powered vehicles in (I forget the time frame) not to distant future. Frankly that encouraged me - it gave me hope in the future - however like most of what these con men state - it never happened. A couple of years back my wife and I called a Uber to pick us up at the airport. The guy that showed was driving a hydrogen powered vehicle. I was enamored by the technology. He told me a lot about his vehicle on our drive home. I’m no engineer but I had/have wishes that that be the way the future takes us. At this time it doesn’t seem probable - but one can still hope. Thx for the great information posts of yours.
Thanks GetX'd, do you recall the type of car that showed up with your Uber? There's a guy in my (work) parking lot who has a Toyota Mirai which is hydrogen powered, but it doesn't burn it in the engine - it powers a fuel cell that drives a 182 hp. electric motor. Did your Uber look anything like this? It isn't cheap, it weighs over two tons and gets 400 miles per fill. There are only a few filling stations in the Greater Vancouver Area so I wouldn't think long trips are an option, although the Ministry of Energy has a network laid out: https://www.californiahydrogen.org/...-Network-Further-Reading-H2_network_study.pdf
2021-toyota-mirai-1.jpg
 
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GetX'd

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Thanks GetX'd, do you recall the type of car that showed up with your Uber? There's a guy in my (work) parking lot who has a Toyota Mirai which is hydrogen powered, but it doesn't burn it in the engine - it powers a fuel cell that drives a 182 hp. electric motor. Did your Uber look anything like this? It isn't cheap, it weighs over two tons and gets 400 miles per fill. There are only a few filling stations in the Greater Vancouver Area so I wouldn't think long trips are an option, although the Ministry of Energy has a network laid out: https://www.californiahydrogen.org/...-Network-Further-Reading-H2_network_study.pdf
View attachment 1250871
You know - As I recall the vehicle did look something like your post. Being a couple of years ago I don’t recall many of the details he provided. It was similar to this one and was a model I’d never heard of. It could have been a Toyota - just don’t remember. Wasn’t a fan of the looks or ascetics - but was a huge fan of the principle on which it ran. I do remember he showed me water dripping from the exhaust pipes when we stopped at my home. He was very proud of the car and it’s power plant. Do you think we have any prayer of this type of technology at least competing with EV?
 

kiwigtx

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Are we talking transmission lines or from the low voltage transformers to the actual dwellings?
The supply to dwellings....change up from 110V to 230V (or 220V if you prefer)

You could use cable that is half the size - saving on copper also.

I remember doing a few electrical repairs in the States back in the 80's.....and I couldn't believe how big the cables were. The stuff you guys have for light circuits is about what we use for socket circuits. Your oven/stove cables look more like house mains.
 

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