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The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

I contacted Glasstek today about a bolt-on 64' hood and was told they weigh 35 to 38 lbs. This is without a scoop, their 65' curve back super stock scoop ( probably the best looking style scoop ever made, imho) is said to add 4 more lbs. which sounded kinda light to me.
 
I contacted Glasstek today about a bolt-on 64' hood and was told they weigh 35 to 38 lbs. This is without a scoop, their 65' curve back super stock scoop ( probably the best looking style scoop ever made, imho) is said to add 4 more lbs. which sounded kinda light to me.
Yes, that's kind of light and semi believable being that it is fiberglass scoop. I would bet on 7-9 Lbs for that scoop.
 
I have a fiberglass hood with Hemi scoop molded in, I’ll weigh it tomorrow. Made for hinges and 2 hood pins up front
 
I have a fiberglass hood with Hemi scoop molded in, I’ll weigh it tomorrow. Made for hinges and 2 hood pins up front
I have a fiberglass hood with Hemi scoop molded in, I’ll weigh it tomorrow. Made for hinges and 2 hood pins up front
So to close the hood on the subject of Hoods in a general sense, there are many ways to skin a cat. It all depends on your determination, craftsmanship and bizarreness. Stuff doesn't have to cost a good dime, just a lot of patience and wit. Then again, time is a dime so sometimes a store bought ready made glass piece will do just fine.

The flat '65 steel hood weighed 79 Lbs. The surgically gutted version of that hood weighed 56 Lbs with a fiberglass "Low Mouth" Hemi scoop installed. The hand crafted all aluminum hood and "Tall Mouth" aluminum Hemi scoop comes in at a floaty 33 Lbs. A full 46 Lb removal on the top and very front end.
Like said, there's love for that factory experimental look.

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If I remember right, my A12 liftoff was somewhere in the mid 30s for weight, and I thought that was heavy for a glass hood. I guess I'm used to the race weight stuff. The street weight stuff for use with hinges must have a bunch more reinforcement.
If i were to spend money for a light hood for my 62, I'd want to save 50 lbs, or to me, it wouldnt be worth the expense.
 
If I remember right, my A12 liftoff was somewhere in the mid 30s for weight, and I thought that was heavy for a glass hood. I guess I'm used to the race weight stuff. The street weight stuff for use with hinges must have a bunch more reinforcement.
If i were to spend money for a light hood for my 62, I'd want to save 50 lbs, or to me, it wouldnt be worth the expense.
Yeah, those one Adam12 car hoods had to be relatively light in order for them to sell them as is to the public.
Fiberglass has come a long way since then as far as fiber weave content, bracing or lack of it.

A friend of mine who still owns "Trick Dodge" an original 1970 Super Bee 6ix pack track pack car that spent most of its life as a notorious WINNING street racer here in New York had a whole fiberglass front clip. When I lifted the original steel fenders and compared them to the glass pieces, I could have sworn that (didn't have a scale back then) they weren't more then 7 Lbs difference, maybe less. Though I'd take any pound or ounce removed, the glass was very thick. The hood was light though.

One has to admit that the '62 platforms are so ahead as far as weight compared to their '63-'65 siblings. They're smaller.
IIRC, my friends stock '62 Savoy REAL Max Wedge stick car with no undercoating weighs in at 3394 wet and bone stock. And that's with the heavy horn head exhaust manifolds and full exhaust system.
These '63-'65 cars can be anywhere in the ball fields of 3600-3800 Lbs wet. Mine weighed 3600 and change, tops 3700 as a post sedan.
 
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What little research I have done says that the fiberglass fender weight is not worth the change, compared to the weight of the steel fenders. A race weight hood and bumpers are much more effective at weight loss.
I'm unwilling to consider glass doors, and I think trunk weight is beneficially located.
 
What little research I have done says that the fiberglass fender weight is not worth the change, compared to the weight of the steel fenders. A race weight hood and bumpers are much more effective at weight loss.
I'm unwilling to consider glass doors, and I think trunk weight is beneficially located.
33. You are correct on all fronts.
If we are talking '62 B-body here, the use of fiberglass fenders may not be advantageous compared to a steel fender that has been cleaned and shed of its undercoating. Believe it or not, there is mad weight in primer sealers and top coats, not to mention over applied bondo filler, so keep that in mind when refurbishing the outer skins. The doors can be stripped and sanitized to the bare essentials to be rather light.
The steel trunk deck lid is beneficial to traction unless it's a tube chassis car where weight is being strategically applied at different points.
 
Had to rebuild my hood scope so I added 1.75 inches to the bottom and vented it .Have carb now sitting .5 inch below opening in the hood. Haven't been able to try full pass but had to add 4 jet sizes to carb for about 1200 ft pass.

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Weight, Ballast, Pounds, Mass, Lard, Fat, Pork, any which way you cut it and name it, carrying the heavy stuff can and will hinder a cars performance and longevity, especially off the straight line type.
Depending on the year and model, there are so many places on a car to remove weight, but it is most important to remember that weight removal should be strategic to your needs and most importantly, intelligently done to keep the structural integrity of the car sound.
Every ounce counts, but you can count on this, you do it wrong or too much in the right places and you'll end up with a stale pretzel with no seasoning on top.
I have seen guys cut and hole saw cars in the wrong places such as rear quarters, roof lines, A,B and C posts, rocker panels, firewalls, fender aprons and even chassis rails and after one quarter mile pass later, there's nothing left but a car with two diagonal wheels dangling in the air while parked.
In essence, weight is not just about removing and replacing it with lighter parts, sometimes just placing it in other sections within the chassis can bring surprising results. Taking a 4000 lb car and just correctly repositioning its own amount of weight without any emphasis of losing weight can sometimes make that car run quicker as a result of better weight transfer and traction.
For those that are bummed about their own personal body mass, there is hope because there can be some advantages to that believe it or not. But again, done smart and proper is a must. (more on that later)

To keep this simple and pragmatic, There are three regions where weight (sprung or unsprung) can be managed.

Starting with the front of the car. This is (region #1) because this is the location of the first mass that the car deals with when accelerating and also where the source of power is nestled.
Mind you, the tires out back have to deal with the mass out front of them and somehow swing it back over themselves just to be able to plant, so what ever can be responsibly refigured out front will only help those two lonely busy bee tires outback.

The mid section from the A-pillar/firewall to the B-pillar which includes the doors is (region #2). A whole lot of energy is being funneled through this area via the transmission and driveshaft. It is also important because at the very tail end of this region just passed the door jams is the very nose tip where the center of gravity zone can be exploited. This sweet spot is where the nose attachments of four links, ladder bars, slapper bars, calvert bars and spring eyes make their case.

At the start of the rear quarters to the rear bumper is (region #3). This desert area is most important because this is where weight is either left alone or as I like to call it, spread out like a land fill. Note that some of the F.A.S.T Class cars running mid deep into the 9's on stock Polyglass tires have weight bars or lead shot boxes distributed at different points within this area.

Going back to region #1, the hood is the obvious first target.
Most cars should lose it (like the one pictured below LOL) It's the first thing we see since it sits high on the body and takes up a lot of real estate on the very front of the car. It is arguably the most changed body panel when it comes to weight removal. There are of course a few variations of ready made catalogued hoods out there made of fiberglass, carbon fiber, but hoods could be made weightless by utilizing exotic alloy materials or by chemically milling the original hood.

This thread should bring some rather obvious ideas and some really wild left field ones as well, so let's have some chat about trimming the fat.
The oldest teenager Gent that I know and looking on to the left is no other than "Top Boy" He's no joke when applying the trickiest tricks to 727's since when they were cast iron cases.. His magic resides within the trans case of this car.

I'll leave y'all with a bomb shell though: Sometimes a stock weight steel hood can make more power just as it is. I'll explain on my next role through.

View attachment 1467794
Why would anyone buy an elephant to make it run like a cheetah? Is the game to create a cheetah that looks like an elephant? I am not familiar with these elephantal surgeries and competitions.
 
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Well we have taken an in depth look at weight loss on the hood so are we on to the bumper and front facia area? I guess the core support could use some trimming. My horns weigh more than you would think but I haven't had them on the scale yet.

Gus
 
Why would anyone buy an elephant to make it run like a cheetah? Is the game to create a cheetah that looks like an elephant? I am not familiar with these elephantal surgeries and competitions.
Yes it is a game of Three-card monte that drag racers in particular, indulge in.

For one reason or another, most people are passionate about their respective choices of body styles no matter what you tell them. This is because we all first fall in love with a form and then think about function later. I love the iconic B-body, particularly the early B's, but I won't disregard a nice looking A-E or even a C body. A notchback Barracuda was almost my first purchase, but it was the Duster's that kept my wheels turning about Mopars.
Later on, what struck my fancy towards the early B-bodies were not just the form and function, but also their incredible history. In short, all the body styles are beautiful and some lend themselves to being greater performers right outta the gate.

Some cars based on their wheelbase and body mass over that wheelbase clearly show their lightweight status and as a result, are natural platforms for performance building while some look like they couldn't get out of their own way. Case in point would be a '67 Belvedere in comparison to a '67 notchback Barracuda. Which one would you choose if you didn't care about form? Well obviously the notchback is allegedly the better platform, but at what expense... It looks light, it's actually light, but probably will not distribute weight all that well with its short rear deck and especially if it's got a nose heavy big block up front. A small block would be a better choice as far as weight distribution and with some careful and thoughtful prep will be a great featherweight prizefighter.
On the other, other hand, the Belvedere looks and is relatively heavy but can achieve some level of lightness depending on someones level of sanity and it will distribute weight fairly well with little effort. Either a big block or a healthy small block will get these cars moving the mail partly because of their long rear deck overhang. This is not to say that thoughtful and careful prep is not needed because it is.
 
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Yes it is a game of Three-card monte that drag racers in particular, indulge in.

For one reason or another, most people are passionate about their respective choices of body styles no matter what you tell them. This is because we all first fall in love with a form and then think about function later. I love the iconic B-body, particularly the early B's, but I won't disregard a nice looking A-E or even a C body. A notchback Barracuda was almost my first purchase, but it was the Duster's that kept my wheels turning about Mopars.
Later on, what struck my fancy towards the early B-bodies were not just the form and function, but also their incredible history. In short, all the body styles are beautiful and some lend themselves to being greater performers right outta the gate.

Some cars based on their wheelbase and body mass over that wheelbase clearly show their lightweight status and as a result, are natural platforms for performance building while some look like they couldn't get out of their own way. Case in point would be a '67 Belvedere in comparison to a '67 notchback Barracuda. Which one would you choose if you didn't care about form? Well obviously the notchback is allegedly the better platform, but at what expense... It looks light, it's actually light, but probably will not distribute weight all that well with its short rear deck and especially if it's got a nose heavy big block up front. A small block would be a better choice as far as weight distribution and with some careful and thoughtful prep will be a great featherweight prizefighter.
On the other, other hand, the Belvedere looks and is relatively heavy but can achieve some level of lightness depending on someones level of sanity and it will distribute weight fairly well with little effort. Either a big block or a healthy small block will get these cars moving the mail partly because of their long rear deck overhang. This is not to say that thoughtful and careful prep is not needed because it is.
Well we have taken an in depth look at weight loss on the hood so are we on to the bumper and front facia area? I guess the core support could use some trimming. My horns weigh more than you would think but I haven't had them on the scale yet.

Gus
One more and last thing on the subject of hoods. These skid plates come in two materials: polished stainless steel and aluminum. When you are talking four of these on each corner or more at other locations throughout the hood, it adds up. Yeah, every ounce counts up top and front.
As far as horns, who needs horns when they'll hear you coming from a block away. LOL. All kidding' aside, two horns made out some kind of pot metal weigh in at 4-1/2 Lbs. I weighed and recorded them in my log back in the early 90's and was surprised.
Some people have moved them to the firewall (moving weight rearward) or removed them all together in a race only setup. The GM horns that were made out of plastic weighed much less. Forgot what years they were produced.

1-1.jpeg
 
One more and last thing on the subject of hoods. These skid plates come in two materials: polished stainless steel and aluminum. When you are talking four of these on each corner or more at other locations throughout the hood, it adds up. Yeah, every ounce counts up top and front.
As far as horns, who needs horns when they'll hear you coming from a block away. LOL. All kidding' aside, two horns made out some kind of pot metal weigh in at 4-1/2 Lbs. I weighed and recorded them in my log back in the early 90's and was surprised.
Some people have moved them to the firewall (moving weight rearward) or removed them all together in a race only setup. The GM horns that were made out of plastic weighed much less. Forgot what years they were produced.

View attachment 1471486
Next the rest of the front body facade and bumpers will be talked about. I'll try and see if I find a few old photos of two certain Dodges that have tricked out these areas to the max.
 
Again, I am in awe of your dedication and diligence in this "weight reduction" pursuit, and the rewards you've reaped for this are evident and impressive.
While I can appreciate it, like when I am "doing something" in parts replacement on, or in addition to my 70 Roadrunner, I certainly take a weight reduction opportunity into consideration, but it isn't something that I focus on or use as a primary guideline to my decisions, even though racing IS a significant part of how I enjoy my car. I have used "Well, it IS a 572 cu in engine vs the 540 I had planned, so that should make up for a few extra pounds"...LOL
 
Yes it is a game of Three-card monte that drag racers in particular, indulge in.

For one reason or another, most people are passionate about their respective choices of body styles no matter what you tell them. This is because we all first fall in love with a form and then think about function later. I love the iconic B-body, particularly the early B's, but I won't disregard a nice looking A-E or even a C body. A notchback Barracuda was almost my first purchase, but it was the Duster's that kept my wheels turning about Mopars.
Later on, what struck my fancy towards the early B-bodies were not just the form and function, but also their incredible history. In short, all the body styles are beautiful and some lend themselves to being greater performers right outta the gate.

Some cars based on their wheelbase and body mass over that wheelbase clearly show their lightweight status and as a result, are natural platforms for performance building while some look like they couldn't get out of their own way. Case in point would be a '67 Belvedere in comparison to a '67 notchback Barracuda. Which one would you choose if you didn't care about form? Well obviously the notchback is allegedly the better platform, but at what expense... It looks light, it's actually light, but probably will not distribute weight all that well with its short rear deck and especially if it's got a nose heavy big block up front. A small block would be a better choice as far as weight distribution and with some careful and thoughtful prep will be a great featherweight prizefighter.
On the other, other hand, the Belvedere looks and is relatively heavy but can achieve some level of lightness depending on someones level of sanity and it will distribute weight fairly well with little effort. Either a big block or a healthy small block will get these cars moving the mail partly because of their long rear deck overhang. This is not to say that thoughtful and careful prep is not needed because it is.
There wasn't any one particular part of this for me to highlight, but I'm really glad you covered these things. My opinion may be more biased towards "appearance" and utility which is subjective vs "overall weight, weight distribution, and wheelbase" which is objective. I definitely prefer the Roadrunner, but before
I took a serious "perspective buyer's" drive of a ?71 Demon/Duster 440 auto. It was loud in a beautifully healthy manner and it certainly had the performance to back up the menacing vibes...POWER-TO-WEIGHT in spades!! I mean WOW! a big block A-body defines that combo!
It looked great, paint was that "real" RED (no orange in it) with black stripes...BAD ASSED
BUT
The factory shoulder strap grabbed me right across my neck, literally! So unless Chrysler had some diabolical secret scheme in league with "The WEF and The Illuminati" to reduce the population of big, tall men, that is just how my 6'3" 270# frame fits in an A-body and that made me look at or see easily all the other ways A-bodies are too small for me as a CRUISER that I race occasionally. If I wanted a track car, I may not look at anything but an A-body!
That takes me to my B-body, and a Roadrunner at that. Still a reasonable size car, not something that you need a crew to dock in a parking spot, and I think the 68-70 Roadrunner is lighter than the 71-74 and my 71 Charger R/T certainly felt way heavier. The interior space is comfortable, especially since I switched out the vinyl covered behemoth of a Bench Seat for a couple of SCAT ProCar bucket seats in Yellow and Black at that, and added a matching center console. TOTALLY changed the vibe inside and made it "racy-er" and still weighing less than if I hadn't done anything.
I may be wrong about this but I believe the longer wheelbase of a B-body makes it harder to get sideways under power, and easier to recover from a slip?
Last note on this and I'll probably just read the rest of this thread in peaceful silent observance:
As far as horns, who needs horns when they'll hear you coming from a block away. LOL. All kidding' aside, two horns made out some kind of pot metal weigh in at 4-1/2 Lbs. I weighed and recorded them in my log back in the early 90's and was surprised.
I can assure you that even if my bold colored metal "Voice of the Roadrunner" horn weighed a ridiculous TEN POUNDS there are no fractions of a second or +MPH that I would trade it for, because it is great to give a "Beep-Beep" to the people who line up, gather, and park all along Beach Highway for Cruisin the Coast and specifically ask to hear it, and that saves me some tread on my drag radials because "smokin' em UP!" is the other popular request!
Great thread, I'm out, and apologies for hijacking.
 
off the wall question
building 540 hemi any suggestions on old school mopar starter possible year can get rebuilt local that will turn motor 9.8 compression
thanks
 
There wasn't any one particular part of this for me to highlight, but I'm really glad you covered these things. My opinion may be more biased towards "appearance" and utility which is subjective vs "overall weight, weight distribution, and wheelbase" which is objective. I definitely prefer the Roadrunner, but before
I took a serious "perspective buyer's" drive of a ?71 Demon/Duster 440 auto. It was loud in a beautifully healthy manner and it certainly had the performance to back up the menacing vibes...POWER-TO-WEIGHT in spades!! I mean WOW! a big block A-body defines that combo!
It looked great, paint was that "real" RED (no orange in it) with black stripes...BAD ASSED
BUT
The factory shoulder strap grabbed me right across my neck, literally! So unless Chrysler had some diabolical secret scheme in league with "The WEF and The Illuminati" to reduce the population of big, tall men, that is just how my 6'3" 270# frame fits in an A-body and that made me look at or see easily all the other ways A-bodies are too small for me as a CRUISER that I race occasionally. If I wanted a track car, I may not look at anything but an A-body!
That takes me to my B-body, and a Roadrunner at that. Still a reasonable size car, not something that you need a crew to dock in a parking spot, and I think the 68-70 Roadrunner is lighter than the 71-74 and my 71 Charger R/T certainly felt way heavier. The interior space is comfortable, especially since I switched out the vinyl covered behemoth of a Bench Seat for a couple of SCAT ProCar bucket seats in Yellow and Black at that, and added a matching center console. TOTALLY changed the vibe inside and made it "racy-er" and still weighing less than if I hadn't done anything.
I may be wrong about this but I believe the longer wheelbase of a B-body makes it harder to get sideways under power, and easier to recover from a slip?
Last note on this and I'll probably just read the rest of this thread in peaceful silent observance:

I can assure you that even if my bold colored metal "Voice of the Roadrunner" horn weighed a ridiculous TEN POUNDS there are no fractions of a second or +MPH that I would trade it for, because it is great to give a "Beep-Beep" to the people who line up, gather, and park all along Beach Highway for Cruisin the Coast and specifically ask to hear it, and that saves me some tread on my drag radials because "smokin' em UP!" is the other popular request!
Great thread, I'm out, and apologies for hijacking.
No apologies needed. We're all on here to express our opinions, ideas and needs. I totally agree with you on keeping the iconic RR horn. It must be the best sound to hear for so many kids and the kid in us adults.
Everyone looses weight in their own ways. Esthetics and functions will definitely trigger debate from both sides of the isles on this thread because weight reduction tends to make a mockery of cars sometimes. Road Runners deserve to keep the beep.
PS: "smoking them up" may reduce rotating weight as the threads wear off. LOL
 
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