What to do?

[Bicylindrico]

I will be pulling my engine this fall for a winter build and would like some suggestions if willing. What I know now is she's a 440, .030" over TRW L2295's with 906 heads so we'll assume 10.5/1 compression. I am looking at intake manifolds that will fit under the hood of a 1965 Satellite as I don't want to cut any of this car. I can acquire another hood if that's what it will take I guess. Holley 780. I am pretty much sold on a solid roller cam setup and this is a 4 speed car with a 4.10 gear out back. I am just a weekend warrior and this car will likely never see the strip, I just want it to run right and sound great for a couple hours a month. A radical camshaft/idle is probably what I am looking for here as I am sure the power will be plenty. I am sticking with manual brakes.

I think those pistons are relatively common for an upgrade through the years. Just wanted to hear some opinions on what combinations have been run and have been successful. Intake and camshaft is what I need to make decisions on. I was considering some affordable aftermarket aluminum heads but would rather spend the dough on a good roller valve-train setup for dependability since the engine will likely make plenty of power with the factory heads. Thanks guys for any input!!

 

[1967coronet440]

Stock bottom end, stealth heads from 440 source, I think they're on sale rightn now for 500!? Or edelbrock performer rpm heads. Comp xtreme energey xr286r cam. You'll need to at least pocket port the 906's to make some power. If you want to make some power first upgrade should be aluminum heads IMO.

 

[1967coronet440]

If you're only really looking for sound go with a Hughes whiplash cam and a performer rpm intake

 

[Bicylindrico]

If you're only really looking for sound go with a Hughes whiplash cam and a performer rpm intake

Great suggestions thank you. I am thinking I may be able to get away with a little more cam if I go the roller setup and better heads. I am actually pleasantly surprised by how well the less expensive heads seem to perform and the reviews. It seems many people are quite happy with them so it almost seems a no brainer to budget the extra $1000-$1500.

I am also inclined to go the single plane route on the intake though. This probably puts me well over the height for fitting under the hood. I will wait and see what the heads look like once removed. This engine has very little apparent wear since it was installed almost 40 years ago. I would have to think parts have improved by then though so I am not against redoing everything.
Does anyone know how long the TRW L2295's have been around? I thought this might give me an indication of how old this engine build is but have been unable to find any details. Thanks

 

[Kern Dog]

The Holley Street Dominator is a great intake with a low profile design. It often makes similar power to the popular Edelbrock Performer RPM that sits a bit taller. I have the RPM in my 1970 Charger with a custom dropped base air cleaner.

 

[493 Mike]

Don't forget: All the air flow you can build into the engine won't help any if you stifle the air with a restrictive air cleaner.
Mike

 

[Bicylindrico]

The Holley Street Dominator is a great intake with a low profile design. It often makes similar power to the popular Edelbrock Performer RPM that sits a bit taller. I have the RPM in my 1970 Charger with a custom dropped base air cleaner.

I am inclined to go with a single plane so I will have to look into that Holley some more. It seems most of the comparison testing ends up with the single plane pushing the horsepower high in the rev range which is probably a preference for me. It seems better heads will be required if I am building more flow around them.

 

[Bicylindrico]

Don't forget: All the air flow you can build into the engine won't help any if you stifle the air with a restrictive air cleaner.
Mike

Yeah, can't have the bottle neck being the most affordable component. I have been looking into the drop base air filters.

 

[ckessel]

On the 440 that was in my Coronet, it had an old school torker single plane, 850 dp Holley and a drop base filter. All fit under the flat hood. You will need to check the manifold height but I would imagine the Performer RPM, Holley Street Dominator and some others will fit. Just make sure it does not get too high on the manifold and don't use a spacer. Most of the drop base 14X3 should be fine on a Holley. Carter/Edelbrock derivatives need a different style base to clear the shape of the carb but they are available.

 

[Bicylindrico]

On the 440 that was in my Coronet, it had an old school torker single plane, 850 dp Holley and a drop base filter. All fit under the flat hood. You will need to check the manifold height but I would imagine the Performer RPM, Holley Street Dominator and some others will fit. Just make sure it does not get too high on the manifold and don't use a spacer. Most of the drop base 14X3 should be fine on a Holley. Carter/Edelbrock derivatives need a different style base to clear the shape of the carb but they are available.

Great, thank you for the tips!

 

[moper]

I'm not sure what the drive for the roller cam setup is about. The secret to things working is everything complimenting each other. A roller cam, with heads modified only to allow the cam to physically work, and not properly ported, are a mismatch. In terms of power you can use, as in make use of in a street/strip deal, you can't go wrong with a set of Stealth heads, a modern grind cam (I'm all against anything Hughes), and either the Street Dominator single plane, or the RPM dual plane. The pistons you have are older, and unless the engine was blueprinted it's not "10.5:1". So I'd measure things when you get it apart, and then figure out what you need. Again - it all has to work together. A roller cam has no part in it without a lot more spending.

 

[Bicylindrico]

I'm not sure what the drive for the roller cam setup is about. The secret to things working is everything complimenting each other. A roller cam, with heads modified only to allow the cam to physically work, and not properly ported, are a mismatch. In terms of power you can use, as in make use of in a street/strip deal, you can't go wrong with a set of Stealth heads, a modern grind cam (I'm all against anything Hughes), and either the Street Dominator single plane, or the RPM dual plane. The pistons you have are older, and unless the engine was blueprinted it's not "10.5:1". So I'd measure things when you get it apart, and then figure out what you need. Again - it all has to work together. A roller cam has no part in it without a lot more spending.

In my opinion flat tappet cams are just archaic in design and if there is a better design to prevent future issues then I will choose to spend the dough. Assuming an engine is to be built with high valve spring pressures, crude lubrication and very seldom starts then I choose roller components. Considering the reason this engine is being torn apart is due to a flat ground camshaft, I would say a roller camshaft does play a part.

 

[moper]

The whole engine is archaic in design. No arguments there. Hell that piston part number is older than I am...lol.

If you have a drinking straw with your mouth on one end, and a finger over the other. Blow through it while moving your finger minute amounts at a time. At some point, you can only blow so much air through it, even though your finger keeps moving away. Ports work like that. The cam opens the valves - but the ports flow the air past that valve. Open it as far as you want - without a seasoned hand having enhanced that port, the air simply won't flow beyond a certain point. That's why one has to match components.

So to keep the roller regardless of cost to do it means spending. If you're worried because a cam got eaten I can underrsrtand and respect that. I tend to disagree on the "roller requirement" but if you're worried about worrying that would explain it.

In terms of my stuff - I won't build them without bushing the lifter bores. That's primarily for oil control and lifter longevity although it can also help out with valve train stability and power. I don't care who's got the lifters that don't need them... I feel ALL lifters need them. If yours ate a flat tappet, you may very well have an issue with a lifter bore (or more than one). But bushing the block adds to the cost. With all the components one needs to bolt in and get it running the cost of a solid roller setup will run as much as acquiring an aftermarket set of heads. Not installing them - but buying them. However the heads will give you more bang for that buck because the drinking straw got bigger. The iron heads will need a lot more investment to be effective with a roller cam. And that's just "effective" as in they'll work with it. Not at all "cost effective".

 

[Bicylindrico]

The whole engine is archaic in design. No arguments there. Hell that piston part number is older than I am...lol.

If you have a drinking straw with your mouth on one end, and a finger over the other. Blow through it while moving your finger minute amounts at a time. At some point, you can only blow so much air through it, even though your finger keeps moving away. Ports work like that. The cam opens the valves - but the ports flow the air past that valve. Open it as far as you want - without a seasoned hand having enhanced that port, the air simply won't flow beyond a certain point. That's why one has to match components.

So to keep the roller regardless of cost to do it means spending. If you're worried because a cam got eaten I can underrsrtand and respect that. I tend to disagree on the "roller requirement" but if you're worried about worrying that would explain it.

In terms of my stuff - I won't build them without bushing the lifter bores. That's primarily for oil control and lifter longevity although it can also help out with valve train stability and power. I don't care who's got the lifters that don't need them... I feel ALL lifters need them. If yours ate a flat tappet, you may very well have an issue with a lifter bore (or more than one). But bushing the block adds to the cost. With all the components one needs to bolt in and get it running the cost of a solid roller setup will run as much as acquiring an aftermarket set of heads. Not installing them - but buying them. However the heads will give you more bang for that buck because the drinking straw got bigger. The iron heads will need a lot more investment to be effective with a roller cam. And that's just "effective" as in they'll work with it. Not at all "cost effective".

Man, thanks Moper for the advice. The heads are very likely going to end up on the upgrade list. Looking at the Edelbrock RPM's at this time. I was unaware of the lifter bore bushings but the concept obviously makes sense. After reading all the issues with flat tappet cams (as well as hearing about it through the years) I think this camshaft failed due to lack of lubrication on startups. The previous owner said he would go start the car about once a year for many years and that's about it. He stated the engine was run more earlier on and then just sat parked for about 30 years but probably less than 500 miles total. Looking at everything under the valve covers and in the cylinders bores, I tend to believe him. Pistons are still clean with almost no carbon on them at all.

I will hold off on making any decisions until this engine is out and apart. I am hoping the pistons/bores look great and maybe I can pull the crank to have sent out to be checked/sized. New bearings, pump and top end would be ideal. I have read many negatives on these old heavy pistons but others ran them with great success so for a street car they may be just fine for me.

I plan to post many pictures as I go forward and hope to get some feedback from knowledgeable people like yourself. I know what I am looking at but untrained at what is to be expected and the options available going forward. If it ends up I need to strip to a bare block and install flat tops, etc, then so be it. Soon.

 

[Big blue]

I think your piston setup is more likely around 8:5 :1 and are probably about 8 to 9 thousandths in the hole at tdc. All 440 engines will run but the stock cyl heads are very restrictive. Although they can be ported and made to flow very well you can get a set of aluminum heads for about the same cost. They are lighter have bigger valves and will allow you to run about a 1/2 point higher compression. Your stock replacement low comp pistons will nullify the power gains your after. Like the other member said mismatched parts do not make power. A full roller valvetrain is designed for high rpm race applications and if you are building a street motor that wont be spinning at 7k rpm your money would be better spent on pistons and cyl heads. Most intakes M1, performer etc should fit under your hood. You would be surprised at how much power you can make without a radical cam its all in the head flow and parts that compliment each other. My 440 has ross pistons 11:1 ported 906 heads and a very tame mp 528 solid cam and propels my coronet to 11 second 1/4 mile times. Nothing fancy but parts that work together.

 

[niteshift70]

The comp cams mutha-thumpa cams are similar in design to the hughes whiplash. They're designed with the lower compression engines in mind, with maximum duration and lift with the least amount of overlap possible to maintain maximum cylinder pressure. Very radical sound and maximum performance for a lower compression engine (there are warnings about extremely high cylinder pressures that can be developed with these cams and increased compression ratios.

 

[niteshift70]

Couple those with a decent ported head, you get the sound you wanted and a decent upgrade in power. As far as an intake, the Torker II is a pretty close match to the RPM intake, but shorter in height.

 

[moper]

Just a clarification - not all builders wil bush the lifter bores. I do. Many don't and are fine with it going out like that.
On the camshaft choice - the cams designed for sound will, in every case, give up usable power for that sound. Usable power is torque and horsepower in the rpms you drive around in. I'd rather have a milder sounding engine that is brutal quick, than a cruise night engine that sounds brutal quick but is sluggish.

 

[Bicylindrico]

I think your piston setup is more likely around 8:5 :1 and are probably about 8 to 9 thousandths in the hole at tdc. All 440 engines will run but the stock cyl heads are very restrictive. Although they can be ported and made to flow very well you can get a set of aluminum heads for about the same cost. They are lighter have bigger valves and will allow you to run about a 1/2 point higher compression. Your stock replacement low comp pistons will nullify the power gains your after. Like the other member said mismatched parts do not make power. A full roller valvetrain is designed for high rpm race applications and if you are building a street motor that wont be spinning at 7k rpm your money would be better spent on pistons and cyl heads. Most intakes M1, performer etc should fit under your hood. You would be surprised at how much power you can make without a radical cam its all in the head flow and parts that compliment each other. My 440 has ross pistons 11:1 ported 906 heads and a very tame mp 528 solid cam and propels my coronet to 11 second 1/4 mile times. Nothing fancy but parts that work together.

Thank you for the input. Why do they state the compression differently from Sealed Power? "Comp Ratio: 11.34:1 w/78.5cc Heads, 10.34:1 w/88cc Heads

They do appear to be just below the deck height as you state.

 

[Bicylindrico]

OK guys, please speak up about anything you see in the pics. The bottom end looks to be in great shape other than the oil didn't appear to be changed in those 20-30 years.