No Oil Pressure...

[tag]

So I built a big fancy fast engine. Edelbrock Performer RPM heads and Intake, Harland Sharp Roller Rockers, .513/.533 @ 289° Lunati Cam, Windage Tray, High volume oil pump from Mopar Performance, Edelbrock Fuel Pump, Edelbrock Performer 750 cfm, MSD Ready-to-Run and MSD Blaster 2 coil, Hooker Headers. Vroom vroom.

I made a point of putting as many stock-looking parts in it as possible. When disassembling the engine, the oil dipstick broke. I picked up a chrome replacement from Summit (I didn't care for the chrome, but it was all they had). It seemed to be a very different length — when I put it all together and put stock four quarts of oil in it, it didn't touch the stick. I had some fuel issues, so I had a "real mechanic" take a look at it and he pointed out that I'd put a washer on the choke lever which was causing it to jam. We removed the washer, she fires up and sounds like it's going to eat small children if they get in the way.

He put oil in it because the dipstick read wrong, and the clatter went away and came back again (it's only been fired up a few times). The oil light started coming on. Convinced there was just too much oil in it, and the chromey-aftermarket dipstick from some no-name company was a sham, I bought another "stock replacement" dipstick from 440 Source. I changed it (I hate changing that thing, it's a real bitch to install even though it's only got one bolt...especially with those big *** headers in there). I changed the oil, just figured I'd start fresh.

No oil on the dipstick.

No oil under the car.

Fire it up, no oil pressure, shut it off.

Jacked up the car and pulled the oil plug, there is *some* oil in the pan. Not sure how much. When I changed the oil, it didn't *look* like a gallon of oil that drained from there.

Anyone have any idea the hell might be going on? Where's the oil going? The oil pump not working? That seems unlikely, also seems unlikely it could be incorrectly installed given it's driven by the distributor gear and...well, all that stuff is spinning clearly. I was thinking about how different the new top end is from the old one, and how in the old top-end the rockers were oiled by oil jackets in the pushrods, which in the new design they are individually adjustable cup-and-balls. Am I overlooking some design flaw? Obviously something is wrong, but aside from pulling the oil pump off just to look at it, nothing is jumping out at me.

 

[6speedGTX]

Tag, will it build oil pressure when the pump is spun with a priming tool?

 

[tag]

I don't know, as I didn't do that...it *was* building oil pressure previously, back when I was having trouble getting it running just the starter turning would kick off the oil light and put some pressure on the gauge. I'm starting to think I might have broken the oil pump drive shaft, now that I think about it. I didn't replace it when I built the engine which I'm now thinking was somewhere inbetween stupid and foolish.

I'll go ahead and pick up MP-3690875, it's worth the insurance I reckon. But I'm still not clear as to why the oil isn't hitting the stick. I was looking at the build photos, and the windage tray has a cut-out for the dipstick.

 

[Beekeeper]

Tag, will it build oil pressure when the pump is spun with a priming tool?

Do this first

 

[Redhorse719]

I don't know, as I didn't do that...it *was* building oil pressure previously, back when I was having trouble getting it running just the starter turning would kick off the oil light and put some pressure on the gauge. I'm starting to think I might have broken the oil pump drive shaft, now that I think about it. I didn't replace it when I built the engine which I'm now thinking was somewhere inbetween stupid and foolish.

I'll go ahead and pick up MP-3690875, it's worth the insurance I reckon. But I'm still not clear as to why the oil isn't hitting the stick. I was looking at the build photos, and the windage tray has a cut-out for the dipstick.

View attachment 161899

I think you are on the right track. Did you use a HV pump? If so the gear is probably spinning on the oil pump drive shaft.

 

[tag]

Yeah the pump is MP-4286590.

I've gone a head and picked up the new shaft...I'm going to pull the old one this weekend. While I have the shaft out, I'll try priming the system and see if I get any oil pressure. If I don't I guess I'll pull the pump.

I'm still reaching for ideas as to why the oil is taking so long to fall down to the pan. I mean, an hour later the dipstick was dry after I put four quarts in. It's a stock oil pan.

 

[6speedGTX]

Is it possible that the dipstick is sliding above the wind age tray rather than going down into the pan? Just pulling at straws but I can't see it takin that long for the oil to drop to the pan. You'd be in real trouble running it down the road if the oil took that long to get back to the pan.
If it was mine, I would spin that pump with a priming tool and have a master pressure gauge hooked up. That will answer a lot of questions for sure.

 

[bigbear]

First off , five quarts of oil not four . But I know that's not your problem . What "6speedGTX" said is a good possibility about the dip stick . As far as the oil pressure ? Could you have put the rocker shafts on wrong ? The oil runs threw them . One other thing . On a motor like this you should really have a gauge and not an idiot light . Just my two cents .

 

[WP29440SE]

did you get all the galley plugs back in? definitely get you a real gauge instead of relying on the light. I have the same summit chrome dipstick and it works great, no issues. as stated , four quarts is not enough , I use 5 1/2 with a stock pan. prime the pump and make sure you are getting oil to the rockers.

 

[HT413]

did you get all the galley plugs back in? definitely get you a real gauge instead of relying on the light. I have the same summit chrome dipstick and it works great, no issues. as stated , four quarts is not enough , I use 5 1/2 with a stock pan. prime the pump and make sure you are getting oil to the rockers.

I'm thinking galley plug too. A buddy of mine is rebuilding a guy's motor because the builder forgot to put a galley plug in... no oil pressure and spun a bearing or 2.

 

[tag]

A galley plug! That's a good one. I'm very suspicious of the oil not getting to the pan, and the dry stick. As per the photo of the windage tray you can see there's a special tap in the tray for the dipstick I don't see how the stick could wind up on top of the tray (I was sort of suspecting the same thing which is why I went and dug up the photo from the build). But the tap goes through the block and through the tray, right behind the pickup on the port side as you can see in the photo.

I always put 4 quarts in it when it was stock and it'd sit right in the middle between "full" and "add". That's what the manual said as well, interestingly enough, though I will admit there was a rather large dent in the bottom of the pan I had to iron out with a ball peen hammer to get the pan not to rest against the pickup. If none of this drive-shaft/etc business pans out, I'll start looking for a missing plug.

 

[69a100]

CYA also and pull the pump and pack it with grease or Vaseline.

 

[wedge69]

WIth not being there or seeing it first hand it sound like all your oil is being Bottled up on top ? Like a rocker shaft in wrong ??
You can get an old rocker cover and cut the top out of it and bolt it on . Then use a primer and see how mutch oil is comeing up to the top. I always Pack the pump with Vaseline or assembly grease to help it prime.But you said you had O/P the first time. Good luck with this and keep us posted !

 

[67 B-body]

There could only be one oil gallery plug missing to cause your symptoms, and I doubt that's your trouble.... The one that "Could" be missing causing low pressure and not noticeable "oil all over the floor", would be the one behind the timing cover "right main oil gallery".....
Try using the prime shaft on a drill to check for oil pressure "With a mechanical gauge". If you have nothing using this method, pull the plunger and spring out of the oil pump, clean and inspect.... This "spring tension" is what sets the pressure of any mechanical oil pump. The pressure pushes the piston with the tension of the spring regulating how much effort it takes, thus changing the system pressure.

 

[wedge69]

67 B-body has a good point ! Also the drawing is GREAT info on the system. And I had a pressure spring go bad in another brand before. Oh and if I may ask you 67 B-body ? What heads are those ? And how you like them. You can PM me if you like as I am starting to put a parts list together for my buld.
Thanks
Tj

 

[67 B-body]

Wedge69
PM sent to keep the OP post clean....

 

[HT413]

The more I think about it the more I think there are 2 problems and 2 different causes.

1) dipstick reading no oil
I agree, it probably isn't a galley plug, because their would be little pressure, but plenty of oil in the pan. Sounds like the wrong dipstick or just not enough oil. Stock pan is 4 quarts plus 1 in the filter, so maybe 4 qts just doesn't register after you fill the filter (I never bothered to look until I get 5 in there). Mine registers toward the top of the full line with 5.5 qts or so.

You either don't have enough oil, or you have the wrong dip stick or it's installed incorrectly. Maybe the tube isn't inserted fully? This would cause the dipstick to read shallow.

2) no pressure:
If there is no flow, the problem has to be in this picture. Remember that the oil pressure switch is out back, so if there is a clog in the main galley right off the pump, the pump is seeing pressure but the sender isn't. If the problem were a plugged rocker shaft, the oil would just go elsewhere and all would appear ok until you heard clatter in that bank. Could also be the pickup is not functioning or is not seated properly. Or maybe you have a plugged filter?? But either way, if this were your only problem, you would see oil in the pan.

- - - Updated - - -

Btw, when you drained your oil and there seemed to be less oil, it's because a quart or so is in the pan, pump and galleys.

 

[miller]

All great thoughts. With all the work (and money) in the motor, well worth going through the steps to find the problem. I might recommend pulling the pan, so you can make sure there's no unseen issues there. With the pan off, and the valve covers, pour some oil over the rocker arms, and let it drain. The oil should flow to the drain holes cast into the heads at the lower corners, down through the block and into the pan. Yeah, I know...but what if the oil flow is blocked somewhere? Like at the head gasket.
If that's all okay, just like the guys are saying, with the pan back on and oil in the pan, use a primer shaft on the oil pump, to see if the pump is working right, and getting oil to the rocker shafts.
The missing oil bit...if there's blockage somewhere in the motor (or an open plug) that oil could be going somewhere else besides back into the pan. Good luck on it!

 

[miller]

Just curious if you've found any answers on your oil problem?

 

[bm02tj]

I have know a couple of people that have pop a lifter out and lost oil pressure
so keep looking and let us know what you find