Removing k-mem resulted in bolt head shearing, about to cut open the frame, options?

[morrow_jacob]

While removing the k member from my first mopar resto, a 68 Charger, the head of the k member bolt sheared off. I have drilled it out to no avail. I'm thinking I'm not going to be able to use a screw extractor and the best way at the moment is to cut open the side of the rail try to get it out through the top and salvage the nut.

There isnt enough sticking down to grab a hold of it. I've also tried welding bar stock to it after the holes were drilled to no avail.

It is the passenger front bolt.

Any help on recommendations is greatly appreciated!

 

[hammond472]

Drill it out undersized so you don't kill the threads. Use a screw extractor penetrating oil and a torch. After you get it out chase the hole with a tap to clean it up. DON'T CUT THE FRAME !

 

[HawkRod]

So not to put salt in the wound, the important thing is to try and avoid this for the other three. These things can become a bit of a nightmare.

To get the broken stud out, I'm thinking heat is what you need. Obviously, if the bolt is seized in there enough to break the head off, it doesn't particularly want to come out, so you need to help it to get out. I had some amazing success with wax. Yes, you heard me right: WAX.

In my case, I had gravity helping me, but the technique is as follows: Heat with a torch the opposite side of where you will be introducing the wax. Let the heat move from that opposite side to the area where you are holding the wax. Once the wax melts, it will partially be drawn into the threads by heat, and partially gravity will help it. Then wiggling the bolt back and forth will often loosen it and allow you to get it out. It has truly worked wonders for me in a couple of cases where nothing else worked.

Now having said the above, your situation presents some issues in that you can't readily get to the back of it, and gravity is working against you rather than helping you.

Option A: If I were in your situation, the first thing I would try to do is weld a bolt to the broken end of the stud. Once that is on there, I would try various forms of lubrication to allow the bolt to come free. Some folks have drilled a small hole through the rail to allow a straw from penetration oil to be slipped in there. You can also try the wax method if you can get some wax to be drawn into the area. You probably need to let this soak over time if using penetrating oil (wax works right away). Then I would try to break the bolt loose. Sometimes sharp raps on a tool rather than continued force helps to knock it loose.

Option B: If option A fails, you may be forced to further drill out the remains of the bolt and go with the largest screw extractor you can. Once it is drilled out, then I would still try to get penetrating oil up into the threads and let that sit. Finally, when trying to get it out, I would heat it up cherry red, then quicky insert the screw extractor and try to work it loose.

Those are my thoughts. I am sure others may have some ideas as well.

Good luck.

Hawk

 

[747mopar]

If his recommendation doesn't work take a small saw, file or die grinder and take the bolt all the way until you see the threads on both sides and then you can collapse the bolt and get it out. Bolts that break off because of rust are the worst to get out!

 

[conv67bdere]

Option A: If I were in your situation, the first thing I would try to do is weld a bolt to the broken end of the stud. Once that is on there, I would try various forms of lubrication to allow the bolt to come free. Some folks have drilled a small hole through the rail to allow a straw from penetration oil to be slipped in there. You can also try the wax method if you can get some wax to be drawn into the area. You probably need to let this soak over time if using penetrating oil (wax works right away). Then I would try to break the bolt loose. Sometimes sharp raps on a tool rather than continued force helps to knock it loose.

I'll throw one variation to Hawk's suggestion above:

Instead of a bolt, my neighbor has welded a NUT to the protruding broken bolt - this applies heat to the metal, and now gives you a hex nut that you can put a wrench on to try and pull it. Add some kind of penetrating oil, and the next thing he suggested . . . believe me it helps . . . try to Tighten the bolt a tiny bit before loosening it, it can help move some trapped rust particles.

Agreed - sharp movements - tightening and loosening - might help free the bolt up . . . don't try an rush it

Good luck . . .

 

[747mopar]

I'll throw one variation to Hawk's suggestion above:

Instead of a bolt, my neighbor has welded a NUT to the protruding broken bolt - this applies heat to the metal, and now gives you a hex nut that you can put a wrench on to try and pull it. Add some kind of penetrating oil, and the next thing he suggested . . . believe me it helps . . . try to Tighten the bolt a tiny bit before loosening it, it can help move some trapped rust particles.

Agreed - sharp movements - tightening and loosening - might help free the bolt up . . . don't try an rush it

Good luck . . .

That does work great, using a half nut instead of a normal one allows you to get a much better weld too.

 

[The Horvaths]

Wax works wonders. Pure parafin is great. Used in canning, stocked in some grocery stores. Heat, wax, repeat as needed.

 

[morrow_jacob]

UPDATE: This friggin sucks. I tried welding a bolt into the hole I drilled...


and heated it...


and then this happened...


- - - Updated - - -

I should have tried a damn grade 8...I'm a bone head...

So I tried a nut...


Starting to look pretty ugly.

I am still tempted to open this part of the frame up...


The nut is now rounded....deep sigh...

Any recommendations at this point?

Thanks everyone for the help

 

[hunt2elk]

Grind off all that you have welded on already. Try welding a nut on again. It might take a couple of tries, but I have had great results using this method. I agree with the others, don't cut a hole in your frame.

 

[HawkRod]

I agree with hunt2elk.

It looks to me like after you have welded a bolt or nut on you are trying to use lots of force and now the other bolt breaks. Stop using gobs of force - you have to "worry" this guy out or you will continue to break stuff. Once you get another nut or bolt welded on, then work the penetrating oil, or wax or high heat. Wiggle or sharply tap the wrench back and forth - do not force it, or you will end up in the same place!

Good luck...

 

[morrow_jacob]

I'm off to try this, thanks fellas, I will let you know how it goes.

 

[747mopar]

Use a half nut! Even if you have to grind one down, it's allot easier to get a good weld in a shallow hole rather than a deep hole. It looked like you were using a propane torch in the pic, if so likely not enough heat.

 

[pbiggs]

The front K-frame nuts can be direct shot with penetrating oil by removing the 1" black plastic body plug located on the front end of the frame channel. Lot better shot than using the bumper attach holes on the side of the frame channel. Unfortunately this suggestion may have come too late.....but I always shoot the penetrating oil at least least two days before attempting bolt removal.
Sorry you are having so much trouble...hope things work out ok

 

[Chargerjase]

Can you spray penetrating oil above the bolt (inside the frame rail)? I have a small factory hole in the frame rail close to the top of the bolt. Spray in there and let it run down over night. If you spray it often over a few hours then leave it it should penetrate all the way down. Then work it back and forth using the nut that you have welded on as mentioned before. It will come but you have to be patient. There is no need to cut your frame rail and you will be glad you didn't when you get it out. Good luck.

 

[steve from staten island]

Use half a nut or weld a heavy washer to the bolt and then the nut to washer. make sure you are not welding to cold and you need to weld around it. the nut is your best bet. After the nut has cooled put a box wrench on the nut and try to turn it as you wack it with a hammer. Don't put to much strength on the box wrench and watch your hands. Forget that propane torch,its not hot enough and the heat aint getting to the threads

 

[pturner]

maybe little help

Every answer above is valid and good. don't look for a quick fix, patience is the key. Drill a small 1/4" hole in in the frame just above the broken bolt. start applying penetrating oil, take several days and do this each day several times. also a trick I learned from a old machinist, take a center punch and a hammer and hit the bolt on the broken part 6-8 times, several times each day while applying the oil every time. the old guy explained that the high frequency vibration set up by the punching will make the penetrating oil go into small cracks and threaded passages between the bolt and nut. you also could grind the bolt smooth, center punch it, and drill it out in several steps (3 or 4) lastly should be the outside diameter of the bolt. if you have taken your time drilling and are centered good, you should be able to take a small pointed punch and remove the remaining bolt in the threads. then chase as above. even if you have drilled a little off center and damaged some threads it should not be so critical as the bolt threads are very coarse and deep. oh, a propane or mapp torch will never give enough concentrated heat to really do any good. you need acetylene and oxygen to get a higher temperature. also a 3/8 bolt will not give the torque required to remove a large bolt as this, I think you found this out.
just trying to give help, and not being critical of any other posts. I know each person posting has had this problem and found a way to correct it, again PATIENCE and TIME will get you fixed up. don't rush into anything. you will just pay for it later.
my 68 Roadrunner has a hole on the driver side that I could get into with a "straw" on the penetrating oil. other frame rail did not. I did the drilled hole thing and oil and vibrate (hit the bolt heads a few licks each day for 3 days) before I started removing the bolts.
good luck and may you be blessed with cool patience, the bolts and broken studs will come out--eventually.
thanks
pt in tennessee

 

[Speedbird]

Use heat to suck it in.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=291283&highlight=transmission+fluid+acetone

 

[morrow_jacob]

Well fellas I've got some bad news, after an entire frustrating day (10 hours of welding, heating, lube ect...) on one figgin bolt, I went against everyones recommendations and ended up cutting a window in the flat part of the frame. I concluded at some point in the past the bolt/nut were galled badly. The entire day I couldnt even get it to budge in either direction. Even with a 1/2 drive wrench before it sheared with heat and lube it didnt move a single bit loosening or tightening.

I feel bad for doing what you guys said not to, but its done, and not I have to deal with it. I plan on welding in a new nut obviously and cutting some 14ga flat stock and spot welding it to the inner edge of the "window" I cut. spot welding the piece back into place and then going around the edge. It should be even stronger than it was, and its flat so it shouldnt be noticed after being ground.

I just dont have some of your guy's patience. I cant thank ya'll enough for your help and time.

 

[5.7 hemi]

You spent 10 hours trying to get that bolt out, your a Saint for having patience like that. After 2, I would have done what you did!!!

 

[morrow_jacob]

You spent 10 hours trying to get that bolt out, your a Saint for having patience like that. After 2, I would have done what you did!!!

Lol, well, working around my toddler and infants sleep schedule so I can use power tools, it was more like 8. I tried every trick I knew of and then asked for help here and then gave it another college try. Before I asked for help it was heated, lubed, then drilled and welded.

Then I tried some of the tricks that were posted (except for the wax, never tried that before, I'm planning on getting some). But having it not even move a fraction of a turn without something failing other than the threads, I threw in the towel.


I REALLY didnt want to cut the frame either. But I also didnt want a galled up nut. Ah well. I will post the final weld up for ya'lls approval.