Opinions please...440 build

[Brandy]

Thanks Gary, the one from Summit comes with the paper gaskets. I had heard they screwed up the bolt alignment. It seems like I saw an engine that had a valley pan with fins, like a valve cover. Cant remember where I saw it though.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Those are valley pan covers, and they do need a separate gasket to seal the manifold to the head. They don't have anything to seal the ports themselves.Those are used mainly on motors with special large port heads, I think. Street motors and even bracket motors work fine with the stock valley pan gasket. The valley pan cover allows you to change the intake without removing the cover. But to remove that cover, you have to remove at least 1 cyl head. The heads hold it down, I believe. I have never used one.

 

[Garys1969RR]

And Summit has one available without the paper gaskets, they are cheaper. I think I have even got them at Advance. Fel Pro 1215 has the paper gaskets included, blocked cross over.

 

[IQ52]

I just learned that Probe is not making BB RB pistons anymore. Keith Black Hypereutectic flat tops with two relief cuts are 30% stronger and lighter and have more rigid skirts to center them in the bore. So. Am I correct that you have to use open chamber heads or else machine the quench dome? Since the stock bore is 4.350 and stroke 3.75. if it's bored to .30 over do I need 4.80 pistons then? Dumb question I know....

The 440 stock bore is 4.320 and .030 over is 4.350. I don't think you can install 4.80 pistons without them overlapping.

KB flat top for use with a closed chamber head. Use this type piston if you are going to use the 84cc or smaller RPM Edelbrock cylinder head. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb237-030/overview/make/dodge

KB quench dome or step head for use with an open chamber head. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb236-030/overview/make/dodge

 

[Mike67]

GR, Indy makes those valley pans, saw one on ebag starting bid $10, 20 sh...but Mancini carries them too...

 

[Brandy]

The 440 stock bore is 4.320 and .030 over is 4.350. I don't think you can install 4.80 pistons without them overlapping.

KB flat top for use with a closed chamber head. Use this type piston if you are going to use the 84cc or smaller RPM Edelbrock cylinder head. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb237-030/overview/make/dodge

KB quench dome or step head for use with an open chamber head. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb236-030/overview/make/dodge

So, the KB quench or step with iron heads. closed chamber? 452's

 

[Mike67]

The 236s are what I have in mine along with the 84cc RPMs, RPM intake and the Xe275HL hydraulic.
So as my parts sit on the shelf for the last 2 yrs, ive asked myself a thousand questions about my components match. The short block came with the cam kit pistons & crank/rods. I wanted something that sounds like a prostocker but would still be up for a friday/ saturday night cruise ( maybe 50 miles). Vacuum is not a concern... will be street driven 99.9% of the time. The only thing im not sold on is the cam, Im thinking about selling the kit ( new) and getting a solid after reading everyones post, would like a roller but its out of my price range right now.
How good is an M1 really going to be on a street bruiser? This is my first bb mopar and the only thing I have to go on other than articles Ive read were sbc w/ a torker intake which was to much for the set up I had in my Camaro, it was a vast improvenent going to a dual plane manifold..

 

[Brandy]

Well, if the M1 don't do it for me I still have an RPM 440 intake and a tall tunnel ram weiand.

 

[Mike67]

Have you chosen a cam yet?

 

[Brandy]

I was lookin at the Xe285HL Comp. I looked it up and see it is more of a racing type cam than a street one. Choppy idle. I may go with a milder Comp that has a small lope idle, 2500-5000 rpm range. They listed one that is the largest you can go with a stock converter. Put that together with the M1 or the RPM 440 and 850-950 CFM and bazinga! More than I need to cruise or burn out.

 

[IQ52]

So, the KB quench or step with iron heads. closed chamber? 452's

Closed chamber, use flat tops. Open chamber, use step head.

Depending upon the compression ratio you want, the 452 iron heads are an open chamber and you would use the KB184 or KB236 step head.

The Mopar Performance 452 aluminum head is a closed chamber and you would use the KB237. The factory iron heads to use with the KB237, are 516 and 915.

It is best to go online at United Engine and Machine and look at the Keith Black catalog to see what is necessary to set these piston up for the heads and compression you are shooting for.

https://www.uempistons.com/catalogs/automotive_catalog.pdf

 

[IQ52]

I was lookin at the Xe285HL Comp. I looked it up and see it is more of a racing type cam than a street one. Choppy idle. I may go with a milder Comp that has a small lope idle, 2500-5000 rpm range. They listed one that is the largest you can go with a stock converter. Put that together with the M1 or the RPM 440 and 850-950 CFM and bazinga! More than I need to cruise or burn out.

On a .030 over 440, I used Edelbrock Victor heads, RPM intake, XE285HL and it made 480 lb-ft at 3,000 rpm, 560 lb-ft at 3,700 rpm and 540 hp at 5,600 rpm. The Victor heads were used in case someday we wanted to jack more camshaft into it.

 

[Brandy]

On a .030 over 440, I used Edelbrock Victor heads, RPM intake, XE285HL and it made 480 lb-ft at 3,000 rpm, 560 lb-ft at 3,700 rpm and 540 hp at 5,600 rpm. The Victor heads were used in case someday we wanted to jack more camshaft into it.

And if I didn't want to someday jack more cam into it would the stock iron heads work ok or not? Do you like the RPM intake over an M1 or a Wieand tall tunnel ram w/ dual carbs?

 

[IQ52]

Factory iron heads will work, but not in stock form. At a minimum you have to prepare them for the .545" lift.

No way I would choose the M1 single over the RPM dual plane for your build. The M1 dual plane is a nice manifold. And the tunnel ram? Not a chance unless you just think it looks so cool you gotta have it.

What happened to the RPM heads?

What the heck is this engine for? This is feeling like a slap together hack job.

 

[Brandy]

Okay. I'm not the engine guy you are, just a car guy with a few ideas. I don't have RPM heads. I do have both the tunnel ram and an RPM 440 intake and an M1 on the way. Just a local cruiser, car show going, rump de rump regular car. I have very little money and have to save up to buy anything. I'm not adverse to using used parts either. I value your advice and guidance enormously and hope you will be patient with my ignorant self. Thanks . Randy.

 

[IQ52]

So what do we know? We are waiting for you to pick up a truck that has a potentially modified 440 that you are going to use as a core engine for the rebuild? You are going to use everything you can from the truck engine. You have in your possession a tunnel ram and a single plane M1 and the truck has a Performer RPM intake.

One thing for certain.........no roller cams or mushroom tappet camshafts will I recommend. Those are nonsense considering your engines purpose.

 

[Brandy]

Agreed. Yes on the truck. I also have the 440 T 1974 motor home motor on the stand in my garage, the one in the truck is a 1978 variety I think. I want to end up with a 440 that has a solid drivable combination of low budget parts AND a bit of muscle too. Having a visually appealing motor is also a part of it. I have always liked the look of a tunnel ram but by no means is my heart set on using it. The last engine I rebuilt, a stock rebuild, was a 351 M back in 1979. Been awhile.

 

[Brandy]

There is a place called Vermont Engines up in Burlington that is a machine shop and can clean it up, install new cam bearings, bore it .30 over.

 

[Brandy]

I mean, what's not to like....

 

[IQ52]

My opinion is..........

You should wait until you have this truck you have committed to buy, and inspect it's engine internals so that you have a complete list of what you have to work with. Then examine your budget and parts and come up with an engine build plan.

Otherwise we are throwing a hotdog down a hallway hoping it finds a bun and some mustard by accident.