More bad news at Tesla motors...

[vintage chromoly]

We can agree it needs work. But urgently needed work is just housecleaning when compared to what would be expected/needed to take over the energy needs of auto and farming traffic needs.

I'm not sure I'd call the work needed "housecleaning"
We just replaced the 138,200 volt transmission towers and metering at one of the local power houses and it was equipment from the 1950's.

 

[vintage chromoly]

If I was a young person looking to train and enter the job market today, I'd take a serious look at the electrical industry in some capacity.

There is great opportunity there at present and it's only going to increase.

 

[ws23jrt]

The money is not in alcohol but in by product. Total biofuels are a pipe dream and always where.

Thanks but I have been close to the whole picture. The "by product" has to be handled and put back into service. That takes fuel burning equipment and is a part of draining the tank dry that I mentioned.

 

[BeeKool]

I'm glad you brought that idea/thought up.

Take the question of making ethanol (for example).
If all the equipment it took to produce the corn -and turn it into fuel- were to run on the tank filled by the plant making the fuel. The tank would run dry quickly.
This is why taxpayers become involved. We are the ones that make this FAKE perpetual motion machine appear to work.
Many plants have been built and remain idle as we speak because of just that.
I do know what I speak of because of working on one of them. A multimillion-dollar mess that is now only a gleaming stainless steel pumping station for oil export.

I've worked at several ethanol plants biodiesel plants as well.
If you were current on your info you would know that they produce and sell more than just alcohol.
They send 3 or 4 products out. The plant in my town also is a feed mill and and produces syrup as well. And wet cake for cattle.

Your analogy at the beginning of your statement was true 15 years ago but is now outdated
If I only relied upon corn I'd be broke, but corn/beans/pork/beef/ and a little hay means I can pay my bills.

Corn right now is below 3.50/bushel which is cheap which means profit.
If corn was worth 8 dollars like it was 6 years ago it would be different.

And as far as taxpayers are concerned, the only subsidy that concerns ethanol is called the "Blenders Credit." And it doesn't go to the plant or the farmer.. it goes to the Oil companies in addition to whatever else they get from the taxpayer.

If Ethanol is such a losing affair, then why does President Trump the business man support it?

 

[mopar 3 B]

I'm not saying that tomorrow morning we are going to wake up and the entire world will be all electric.

I do think we will see electrical motor driven machinery in our lifetimes.
We already see it in the shipping industry that was previously predominantly diesel.

That industry has mandated down time and time to charge.
Would be interesting to see a cost per life cycle of both without government kick backs. But wait for electric rigs that would not be test with true real life numbers. So no real comparison yet just theory.

 

[ws23jrt]

I'm not sure I'd call the work needed "housecleaning"
We just replaced the 138,200 volt transmission towers and metering at one of the local power houses and it was equipment from the 1950's.

A local repair of a power line where you live does not add to the conversation. IMO that is exactly what "housecleaning" is.
Much like having a plumber unclog a drain.

 

[ws23jrt]

I've worked at several ethanol plants biodiesel plants as well.
If you were current on your info you would know that they produce and sell more than just alcohol.
They send 3 or 4 products out. The plant in my town also is a feed mill and and produces syrup as well. And wet cake for cattle.

Your analogy at the beginning of your statement was true 15 years ago but is now outdated
If I only relied upon corn I'd be broke, but corn/beans/pork/beef/ and a little hay means I can pay my bills.

Corn right now is below 3.50/bushel which is cheap which means profit.
If corn was worth 8 dollars like it was 6 years ago it would be different.

And as far as taxpayers are concerned, the only subsidy that concerns ethanol is called the "Blenders Credit." And it doesn't go to the plant or the farmer.. it goes to the Oil companies in addition to whatever else they get from the taxpayer.

If Ethanol is such a losing affair, then why does President Trump the business man support it?

All I can say to that is Trump has a lot on his plate to deal with.
I do admit to my narrow connection to that industry. My perspective is what it is. One new plant standing idle for almost ten years now.
If the "blenders credit" did not go to the oil companies would that be enough to tip the balance of profit vs loss?

 

[mopar 3 B]

Thanks but I have been close to the whole picture. The "by product" has to be handled and put back into service. That takes fuel burning equipment and is a part of draining the tank dry that I mentioned.

There is lots of energy in corn cobbs and stalks. Get amy where close to a corn alcohol plant and fields are stripped bare.
But yes I agree this is just another goverment scam at our expense.

 

[mopar 3 B]

I've worked at several ethanol plants biodiesel plants as well.
If you were current on your info you would know that they produce and sell more than just alcohol.
They send 3 or 4 products out. The plant in my town also is a feed mill and and produces syrup as well. And wet cake for cattle.

Your analogy at the beginning of your statement was true 15 years ago but is now outdated
If I only relied upon corn I'd be broke, but corn/beans/pork/beef/ and a little hay means I can pay my bills.

Corn right now is below 3.50/bushel which is cheap which means profit.
If corn was worth 8 dollars like it was 6 years ago it would be different.

And as far as taxpayers are concerned, the only subsidy that concerns ethanol is called the "Blenders Credit." And it doesn't go to the plant or the farmer.. it goes to the Oil companies in addition to whatever else they get from the taxpayer.

If Ethanol is such a losing affair, then why does President Trump the business man support it?

I understand the farming element and do not agree with it. There was a time when the blessings of the earth were recieved and a natural by product fed back to it. Now its stripped and fed back man made pollutants that kill almost every thing in it. But such is progress or not.

 

[ws23jrt]

I understand the farming element and do not agree with it. There was a time when the blessings of the earth were recieved and a natural by product fed back to it. Now its stripped and fed back man made pollutants that kill almost every thing in it. But such is progress or not.

So current farming practices are bad? Room for improvement? Yep.
You made mention of a term we hear a lot these days.---"man made". Is that not the key to all our struggles?
Man is a disgusting -environment upsetting- critter. Man tries to thrive like all other lifeforms but just makes a mess.
Are we not the mosquitoes here that need to be culled for the comfort of others?

 

[mopar 3 B]

So current farming practices are bad? Room for improvement? Yep.
You made mention of a term we hear a lot these days.---"man made". Is that not the key to all our struggles?
Man is a disgusting -environment upsetting- critter. Man tries to thrive like all other lifeforms but just makes a mess.
Are we the mosquitoes here that need to be culled for the comfort of others?

We were put here to have dominion over the earth and all it wonders. For some reason time repair it wounds regardless if man made or not. We choose our quality of life while here for ourselves and those after us to some extent. We are not the holders of the master plan.

 

[ws23jrt]

We were put here to have dominion over the earth and all it wonders. For some reason time repair it wounds regardless if man made or not. We choose our quality of life while here for ourselves and those after us to some extent. We are not the holders of the master plan.

Got it. Cheers.

 

[Kern Dog]

Not all electrical generation is by coal.
That said, yes, we still have to generate the power to charge them.
In the electrical industry, this will prove to be a substantial new market.

I hope not. Any true Mopar guy would not embrace a silent car with no rumble, no exhaust sounds, no cammed V8 vibration...What the fuckity **** is wrong with you???

 

[Kern Dog]

A smart guy wrote:
Environmental Engineer here. We are sitting on top of newly found oil reserves which are massive, combined with our past reserves is enough to last the US for one hundred years or more.

Fuel economy standards are inching up.

Emissions from those nasty internal combustion engines are essentially minute due to cleaner fuels, fuel injection, catalytic converters, and engine improvements.

Emissions from refineries (as are coal fired power plants) have been ratcheted down to levels unseen in the industrial age....essentially below the point where there is no impact on the environment.

What? No mention of our very clean vast natural gas reserves? Reserves that are easier and cleaner to produce and utilize? Trillions of cubic feet right under our feet. Our fleet used to be natural gas powered and ran fine......

To summarize, given the vast amounts of nat gas/oil and the minute emissions from the combustion of said fuels, the idiots pushing electric cars all have an agenda..mainly the almighty DOLLAR, although we do get some of the ignorant tree huggers protesting here at our offices. They arrive in SUV's and Planes, and come here to protest the use of fossil fuels???? I suggested to a few one time that oil is cheap, along with soap, razors and deodorant as most of them can't carry an intelligent conversation, much less practice a little personal hygiene.

Climate change? Maybe. Man-Made climate change? NO WAY. It is all a ruse to make money and push agendas, even to favor certain industries. Remember the tax money debacles under Barry?

Even some people who drive these so called 'clean' electric cars don't even realize that the electrons coming from their wall outlet are generated by the combustion of a fossil fuel. Yes I am biased because I see the entire picture.....it is all about the money....ask Gore.

 

[Photon440]

This is the electric tractor that John Deere is working on. https://electrek.co/2016/12/05/john-deere-electric-tractor-prototype/

 

[vintage chromoly]

This is the electric tractor that John Deere is working on. https://electrek.co/2016/12/05/john-deere-electric-tractor-prototype/

View attachment 565223

What?........impossible! Lol

 

[Richard Cranium]

A real solution is nuclear-powered cars.--Buy one and NEVER have to refuel.

 

[vintage chromoly]

A local repair of a power line where you live does not add to the conversation. IMO that is exactly what "housecleaning" is.
Much like having a plumber unclog a drain.

That "local repair" is indicative of exactly what your position was on the grid.
We didn't clean it as we often do with power distribution equipment. We replaced it as it was antiquated and ready to fail. Similar to quite a bit of the system.
Power companies don't do large capital improvements for kicks and the condition of the distribution system in my area isn't isolated.

 

[BeeKool]

So current farming practices are bad? Room for improvement? Yep.
You made mention of a term we hear a lot these days.---"man made". Is that not the key to all our struggles?
Man is a disgusting -environment upsetting- critter. Man tries to thrive like all other lifeforms but just makes a mess.
Are we not the mosquitoes here that need to be culled for the comfort of others?

I understand the farming element and do not agree with it. There was a time when the blessings of the earth were recieved and a natural by product fed back to it. Now its stripped and fed back man made pollutants that kill almost every thing in it. But such is progress or not.

Farming practices today are much better than they were even 30 years ago. Much less erosion, much more accurate and precise application of chemicals and fertilizers. Larger and cleaner equipment means more acres per gallon of diesel. Precise planting techniques place seed with exact specifications so as to not overdue it. Livestock are raised in confined quarters which limits their impact on the surrounding countryside. And the manure is kept in lagoons and spread in the fall. Nitrogen inhibitirs prevent it from leaching frim tbe soil and ending up in the gulf. There are always some "bad actors" who give the industry a black eye. I have a couple of them in my community But by and large when you compare the farmer in the US to his European, Aisian or South American counterpart the difference is night and day. Not only are our methods more productive, the environmental footprint is much less.

I have Bald Eagles nesting in my grove and have counted over 5 species of owl alone in my sectionthis year. Falcons and hawks are also common. Pheasants are everywhere and my brother bagged his limit 4 different times this season.
I saw a huge whitetail buck almost everyday all fall. And they are overpopulated.
Sensitive species like tree frogs and salamanders are also common.

I would like to see more acres taken out of production, but that would involve taking a pay cut which any good business man is reluctant to do.
The problem is quite simple: there are too many people on this planet. Much of what the US produces goes to China.
I'm fortunate that my state does not allow foreigners to own land. Would be nice if all states were that way, maybe they are

 

[Richard Cranium]

Tesla employees say to expect more Model 3 delays, citing inexperienced workers, manual assembly of batteries


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/25/tesla-employees-say-gigafactory-problems-worse-than-known.html