Buyer Beware - Rick Ehrenberg

[HEMI-ITIS]

It's my guess you started there.I still go there as well as FABO and a few others. Different sites have different rules. Pick your sandbox

Like I said,even fresh crate engines need to be torn down and checked!! The **** I've heard makes me sick that vendors can get away with selling that CRAP!

 

[Speedbird]

There is so much to unpack here.
I know neither the OP nor Mr. Rick.

The OP says he looked at two cylinders while Mr. Rick says they looked at them all.
Be that as it may, I think that minor conflict in testimony is irrelevant to what I would have done IF I was the buyer of said motor AND if it seemed to be not a "good" motor.
After all, any number of other problems could have been found and Mr. Rick is reputed to have said he would "stand behind" the motor.
I can only speak to that without taking sides since I don't know all the "facts".

Since Mr. Rick has stated that the buyer lives not to far away, I can only say what I would have done based on the information given.
"Stand behind" might be a pretty vague term.
Personally, I would have taken said engine back to the seller and let them tear it down to determine what was wrong.
Or at worst case shipped it to them.

I thinking from the 1000 dollar figure, that we are talking about a 3000 dollar engine?
Trust is often involved in these engine situations.
If I trusted someone enough to give them that money for a rebuilt (or used) engine I would trust them enough to let them examine it for problems and solutions.
It seems to me that would have been a good thing to do.

I suppose that I'm posting because I have a" professionally rebuilt" engine in my climate controlled house for a couple of years now.
It is long past the 12/12000 mile warranty period.
Yet the re-manufacturer is a day trip from my house and they have a good reputation to consider like a "public person".
IF I have any issues when I get it installed I would not hesitate to deliver it back to them in some fashion for evaluation and/or repair. I'm sure we could work it out.

Trust people to do the right thing if given the opportunity.

My 2 cents. No charge.

 

[moparedtn]

It's my guess you started there.I still go there as well as FABO and a few others. Different sites have
different rules. Pick your sandbox
Like I said,even fresh crate engines need to be torn down and checked!! The **** I've heard makes me sick that vendors can get away with selling that CRAP!

Agreed - and I've noticed something about Rick's email upon reading it over again:
The bores were checked once initially last year by both he and the buyer with a bore scope and that they found them to be flawless, like jewelry or some such.
Then some time later, after the buyer decided to have someone tear down the engine after the rings weren't sealing (I guess?) the emails started flying and again,
the bores were found to be fine.
I also notice the buyer didn't actually refute anything in Rick's email specifically, so I have to assume Rick's stating there were two times the bores were found to be ok last spring/early summer turned into corrosion in them much later on.
Am I missing something there?

 

[rt-man]

Agreed - and I've noticed something about Rick's email upon reading it over again:
The bores were checked once initially last year by both he and the buyer with a bore scope and that they found them to be flawless, like jewelry or some such.
Then some time later, after the buyer decided to have someone tear down the engine after the rings weren't sealing (I guess?) the emails started flying and again,
the bores were found to be fine.
I also notice the buyer didn't actually refute anything in Rick's email specifically, so I have to assume Rick's stating there were two times the bores were found to be ok last spring/early summer turned into corrosion in them much later on.
Am I missing something there?

Moparedtn, why should I get into a pissing match with what Rick said on these forums? I know what parts he said that were incorrect (a couple of bores inspected versus all bores, etc). But the bores were not found to be fine when the engine was torn down after the rings were determined not to have sealed. How else would it have been determined about the bores, or gotten those pics?

And for those who knew Lou, Rick said Lou built it, if that matters.

I claim it got condensation/water in it while it sat in a 3rd party's garage before Rick obtained it (2-4 years?). Rick obviously feels otherwise.

Rick knew I was inexperienced here, but he didn't offer to pull the heads or an oil pan to let me inspect it when I bought it. For those defending him, he's the experienced All-Father here, right?

Yup, stupid buyers, you all suck, you deserve what you get, right, Kerndog?

 

[NJRR]

Agreed - and I've noticed something about Rick's email upon reading it over again:
The bores were checked once initially last year by both he and the buyer with a bore scope and that they found them to be flawless, like jewelry or some such.
Then some time later, after the buyer decided to have someone tear down the engine after the rings weren't sealing (I guess?) the emails started flying and again,
the bores were found to be fine.
I also notice the buyer didn't actually refute anything in Rick's email specifically, so I have to assume Rick's stating there were two times the bores were found to be ok last spring/early summer turned into corrosion in them much later on.
Am I missing something there?

Which is why I suggested to the OP to post the emails for us to get a better idea of what occurred.

 

[moparedtn]

Hey, many of you know my trevails on getting a suitable replacement 440 for my GTX (wound up with engine #3 being the winner).
Reminder - the fella had the engine built to tide him over while his own 440 was being built all to hell and back, so it was in the car
for roughly 3 months of casual weekend duty.
I bought that engine from a man in Las Vegas, NV for crying out loud. Not the most prudent of decisions, but I did try to limit my risks, too.
- I actually spoke to the machine shop who rebuilt it, who sent me some documentation on what all they did to it.
Only thing missing was which cam it had; turns out, the cam kit was supplied by the customer and it was a Mopar purpleshaft, which I verified.
- I had the seller make some video of it still in the car and running, seeing the oil pressure on the gauge and so forth
- The engine literally came out of the car and into the shipping crate the same weekend, as was documented by the seller (I got pics then, too).
- When it got here in fine kettle, the small residual left over fluids in it after draining were still obviously fresh

Now having said all that, did I take a risk? Hell yes, a HUGE one. I didn't know any of those guys from Adam, but I did spend considerable time
on the phone with the builder, the owner and even the owners' son. You get a sense of who's BS'ing you or not after a while, sure, but they
all could have been in on a scam, too.
In the end, I got a good engine for a good price and the satisfaction of knowing my BS meter still works - but I was DAMN lucky, too.

 

[moparedtn]

Moparedtn, why should I get into a pissing match with what Rick said on these forums? I know what parts he said that were incorrect (a couple of bores inspected versus all bores, etc). But the bores were not found to be fine when the engine was torn down after the rings were determined not to have sealed. How else would it have been determined about the bores, or gotten those pics?
And for those who knew Lou, Rick said Lou built it, if that matters.
I claim it got condensation/water in it while it sat in a 3rd party's garage before Rick obtained it (2-4 years?). Rick obviously feels otherwise.
Rick knew I was inexperienced here, but he didn't offer to pull the heads or an oil pan to let me inspect it when I bought it. For those defending him, he's the experienced All-Father here, right?
Yup, stupid buyers, you all suck, you deserve what you get, right, Kerndog?

I don't know you from Adam either. For all I know you're a stand up dude.
However, when you decided to run all over the internet trashing an extremely well-known and trusted member of the hobby (and an acknowledged expert, to boot),
well you HAD to expect people to at least be skeptical, did you not?
You brought the party, man. People just want the tangible facts before hanging a man. Nothing unreasonable about that.

Now, should things have gone down differently along the way? Of course.
Rick (or anyone else) shouldn't have sold a used engine without at least a partial teardown for sure, no matter who built it.
Further, if you wanted to use it for other than the intended use of the build (which apparently was the case here), either party should have said
"whoa, maybe this is not the engine for you/me".
In fact, that definitely should have happened sounds like - and if there was friction from the get-go between you two, then either party should have
just walked away from it.
Nope, y'all all agreed things seemed ok and the deal was struck...
On a used engine.
Built by someone no longer available to talk to.
Hell, I would have walked away from Rick on that one and I trust him implicitly. Too many unknowns in the equation from the get-go.

Finally, a question...
Has Rick, at any time, ever made any offer at all to smooth things out with you?

 

[kiwigtx]

I think this has gone on long enough here....no need for any more comments that can only cause more grief.


***Updated.
After consultation with a fellow member here, I have re-opened this thread with the sole purpose of getting the 'emails' published here, so that all the conjecture and speculation can be put to rest.
If you have these emails @rt-man ...then I strongly suggest that you get them up now, and let us see what was actually said.

For everyone else, please refrain from posting any more of the negativity here against a guy who has possibly not even read this thread, and cannot possibly defend his position without knowing what has occurred.

Thanks.
Roger

BTW ...I'm not here to take sides, just trying to prevent any nastiness between fellow members and people of influence outside our group.

 

[Don Frelier]

That's a roger Roger...

 

[69a100]

I just read the other boards on this subject. I think rt has made his own bed and stepped in it deep here. He's the one that has to lie in it! If you don't know or read, the builder of this motor died 8 years ago. That just opens another can of worms that weren't even mentioned earlier. Good Luck gettin it fixed rt!

 

[moparedtn]

I think this has gone on long enough here....no need for any more comments that can only cause more grief.
***Updated.
After consultation with a fellow member here, I have re-opened this thread with the sole purpose of getting the 'emails' published here, so that all the conjecture and speculation can be put to rest.
If you have these emails @rt-man ...then I strongly suggest that you get them up now, and let us see what was actually said.
For everyone else, please refrain from posting any more of the negativity here against a guy who has possibly not even read this thread, and cannot possibly defend his position without knowing what has occurred.
Thanks.
Roger
BTW ...I'm not here to take sides, just trying to prevent any nastiness between fellow members and people of influence outside our group.

All I (and others) are looking for here - tangible evidence. No way of making an informed opinion without it.
I will reach out to Rick again about the possibility of retrieving the emails, but given where and what he's doing right now, doubtful he even has access
to them - but I will ask.

 

[WileE]

Lately, we've witnessed people throwing out allegations expecting everyone to accept them as fact. I believe we should keep this open to discern more information. The OP' s allegations should be open to challenge.

 

[69a100]

Lately, we've witnessed people throwing out allegations expecting everyone to accept them as fact.

He's had the motor a year, why not wait another 35 years? Then he could've been a Ford!

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

The claimed builder is gone 8 years now,,,,RIP LV!!!! There is no need to even bring his name into this foodfight!! HE WAS LIKE FAMILY TO ME

 

[NJRR]

The claimed builder is gone 8 years now,,,,RIP LV!!!! There is no need to even bring his name into this foodfight!! HE WAS LIKE FAMILY TO ME

Even though it was 8 years ago, sorry for your loss.

 

[QuickBpBp]

This is just a bad deal for all... One guy gets an engine from a trusted source. One guy buys from a trusted source. Trusted sources friend built it a MINIMUM 8 years ago and the bores were fine for 7 years but then rusted in 1 year..... Good luck working this out for both members...

 

[kiwigtx]

I believe we should keep this open to discern more information. The OP' s allegations should be open to challenge.

I'm OK with that, as long as we keep the discussion civilised and to the point....I don't want to see any more bitch-slapping.

 

[Kern Dog]

The following is a segment from the posted email:
"So he decides to break it in with synthetic oil, and, no surprise, the rings don't seat. Then started a long email chain; he had this so-called engine builder pull it apart, and he sent me an e-mail, which I have, where he said everything looked perfect inside. .......

Months later, actually over a year, he sends another email, now the cylinder walls are suddenly rusty. Huh? And the block needs to be sleeved?"
________________________________________________________
With this, if we are to believe Ricks words, the engine looked fine at time of purchase and after teardown. After sitting for over a year unassembled, the bores developed rust pitting.
How is that in any way the fault of the seller?
Forget for a moment any other evidence, forget my opinions, etc....Just consider this one bit of info. Who is liable for damages this long after a sale and after disassembly? Is a seller supposed to provide "cradle to grave" support no matter how much a buyer modifies, alters or neglects an item?

 

[NJRR]

The following is a segment from the posted email:
"So he decides to break it in with synthetic oil, and, no surprise, the rings don't seat. Then started a long email chain; he had this so-called engine builder pull it apart, and he sent me an e-mail, which I have, where he said everything looked perfect inside. .......

Months later, actually over a year, he sends another email, now the cylinder walls are suddenly rusty. Huh? And the block needs to be sleeved?"

With this, if we are to believe Ricks words, the engine looked fine at time pf purchase and after teardown. After sitting for over a year unassembled, the bores developed rust pitting.
How is that in any way the fault of the seller?
Forget for a moment any other evidence, forget my opinions, etc....Just consider this one bit of info. Who is liable for damages this long after a sale and after disassembly? Is a seller supposed to provide "cradle to grave" support no matter how much a buyer modifies, alters or neglects an item?

Which is why we need to see the emails. Should we call James Comey?????

 

[QuickBpBp]

Which is why we need to see the emails. Should we call James Comey?????

WE WILL NEVER get to see the unredacted versions!!! LOL