No Factory torque boxes...USCT front and rear Torque Boxes ordered, What else would you do?

[33 IMP]

My real A12 doesnt have torque boxes either. 727 though.

 

[Nate S]

My real A12 doesnt have torque boxes either.

A-12’s didn’t, ‘70’s did.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Don't worry about it IMO, order what you need. Weld it in and forget about the drama. You are making the car what you want, so it's water under the bridge. Many oddball things happened in the day and most cannot be proven.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Original V code cars, auto or 4-speed all had torque boxes. 50 years is a long time. Many a body-transplant has been done. If you REALLY need to know, strip the paint or look for welds a few inches away from the body stamping locations. Someone doing this carefully will transplant those as well. When stripped you can tell. If you do this and it’s truly virgin steel with no grinding marks etc it’s an oddball. Most likely you’ll find marks in my experience.

Thanks,
I don't get why someone would do that "transfer of stampings" on a non #s matching drivetrain car? My car has no factory undercoating, so maybe that will help. As far as stripping the paint? Not until I get it repainted, and that's not even on the schedule.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Don't worry about it IMO, order what you need. Weld it in and forget about the drama. You are making the car what you want, so it's water under the bridge. Many oddball things happened in the day and most cannot be proven.

Thanks again Jerry.
I am going to move forward, but I do believe there is still value in a "V" in the VIN of a real V-code car, as long as it is real.
If removing the paint from the radiator support and rear trunk opening by the VIN stampings is what may reveal the "truth" I'll get to that if and when a paint job comes up, not until then.

 

[Nate S]

Thanks,
I don't get why someone would do that "transfer of stampings" on a non #s matching drivetrain car? My car has no factory undercoating, so maybe that will help. As far as stripping the paint? Not until I get it repainted, and that's not even on the schedule.

I’m not trying to give you a hard time. Just pointing out how to know for sure. I remember gutting a Canadian ‘69 charger R/T, 440 4-speed, 4.10 Dana, red with black stripe. Rot was absolutely incomprehensible. Today someone might try to repair it, back then the sheet metal wasn’t available but a ‘69 383 car from California was pretty affordable. People did those swaps (some with numbers, some without) and if done perfectly they are indistinguishable and worth it (for someone). Trick is the indistinguishable part. Mistakes are made and it’s the mistakes people look for to determine originality.

Now you could go figure out that this was done to your car and then find some crusher-ready convertible and cut the boxes off then weld them on to your car. Then your car might truly be indistinguishable. At that point, who cares? It got a body transplant.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I’m not trying to give you a hard time. Just pointing out how to know for sure. I remember gutting a Canadian ‘69 charger R/T, 440 4-speed, 4.10 Dana, red with black stripe. Rot was absolutely incomprehensible. Today someone might try to repair it, back then the sheet metal wasn’t available but a ‘69 383 car from California was pretty affordable. People did those swaps (some with numbers, some without) and if done perfectly they are indistinguishable and worth it (for someone). Trick is the indistinguishable part. Mistakes are made and it’s the mistakes people look for to determine originality.

Now you could go figure out that this was done to your car and then find some crusher-ready convertible and cut the boxes off then weld them on to your car. Then your car might truly be indistinguishable. At that point, who cares? It got a body transplant.

I'm looking at this from a logical perspective. Non #s drivetrain V-code adds how much to the value? Not enough to make it worth splicing in the stampings where I referenced, at I wouldn't think so. What history I know of the car says it wouldn't have been done. I'm not planning on selling it, although one day I'm sure it will have another owner but I probably won't know about it. So I've asked about body and paint, so when that time comes, that is something I can check.
The biggest revelation I get from this is I have to order torque boxes from USCT.
Thanks

 

[4406bbl]

Guess my superbird is not real, 440-6 4-speed, no boxes. That guy everyone on here says is stupid, magenta said only hemis and converts in 1970 on 1970 b-bodies. I am pretty sure he is right.

 

[4406bbl]

Oh ya, restorick makes a nice set if you want original look....your car is real. E-bodies and 71 up b-bodies have them on 6bbl cars, you will also need rear frame plates, pinion snubber reinforcement, ansprng plates thay weld in by the 4 holes to do it right.

 

[R/T Boy 67]

Just because a car was supposed to have something installed does not mean that it had it. The same goes for something that was not supposed to be installed. I don't believe your car would have had them.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Oh ya, restorick makes a nice set if you want original look....your car is real. E-bodies and 71 up b-bodies have them on 6bbl cars, you will also need rear frame plates, pinion snubber reinforcement, ansprng plates thay weld in by the 4 holes to do it right.

Good to know, for someone who is interested in "doing it right".
I'm interested in stiffening the chassis, and getting the correct answer about what 70 Roadrunners had torque boxes.
I'll see what he is offering though, and ask him and USCT if the rear frame plates and spring plates have any impact on strength for my application.

 

[4406bbl]

The front spring plates are vital, my sbird was a little off there when we put it on the frame machine mounted it by the pinch welds, and made it perfect, then welded in all the torque boxes. Now my car is really right or wrong. Plates and rear reinforcements are cheap, like $50, just do it.

 

[4406bbl]

For what you are doing the whole us cartool kit would be kickass, a buddy just did a challenger, a lot of work but it is nice, the piece under the radiator is fantastic and really stiffened that area up, just my 2 cents, after having both cars on an ez-liner.

 

[biomedtechguy]

For what you are doing the whole us cartool kit would be kickass

Thanks, I appreciate that, BUT

The front spring plates are vital

Those front spring plates-I'm going to look them up now, so please stand by, I may have a question, the torque boxes, and the subframe connectors....I'm going to HAVE to do only those 3 things. As it is, I thought I had torque boxes, so I'm adding parts and labor for those and the spring plates. I'm already doing a TON of work, I just ripped about $600 off of my dwindling chunk of change for the driveshaft. I TRY to do work on my car in "systems" either those that interact with each other or maybe doing one thing provides access to another, and so forth. So the mechanic suggested the subframe connectors, now I have to add torque boxes and spring plates, and I don't want to pile on, because he made it sound like he wasn't going to charge me much or anything to weld the subframe connectors in, just because he feels like it's the time to do it, and lucky for me, he's taking a personal interest in my car, so that means a lot. It will be easy to explain the torque boxes and spring plates, but I don't want to push it. Labor is right at $10,000 for everything he's doing, and I'm just a medical equipment mechanic with a wife who thinks I'm spending $4k on labor...get it?

 

[biomedtechguy]

Ok, so these are the spring plates for my car:

and here is where I'm thinking they go?

I'm curious why they taper towards the bottom vs being more square?
Here's the other side. Both sides seem to have another layer of metal under the nuts if you look closely.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Factory Front Torque Box....

Factory Rear Torque Box

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Ok, so these are the spring plates for my car:
View attachment 969126
and here is where I'm thinking they go?
View attachment 969128
I'm curious why they taper towards the bottom vs being more square?
Here's the other side. Both sides seem to have another layer of metal under the nuts if you look closely.View attachment 969131

Those are Hemi only & go in the rear to support the outrigger rail the the rear spring bushing goes into...

Just checked, Rick no longer lists the spring hanger reinforcement plates... Call him....

 

[4406bbl]

Yes those are the rear plates, sorry for your pain with the wife, mine does not care what I spend. I know labor costs, I put the boxes in because I want a modern hemi in it someday, so it is done. I may have a set of ar 70 b-body plates for like $25 shipped.

 

[Builderguy]

I am not sure about this as I am not that good with 1970 RR's but from a build sheet decode it looks like a "S15 Hemi/ Police Suspension HD" could be ordered but maybe you did not have to have that. IDK Just throwing it out there.

Vin decodes

• RM Road Runner
• 21 Post Coup
• V 440 Six Pack
• 0 1970
• A Lynch Road assembly plant

Fender Tag Decode (rare codes/sought after highlighted in red)

• A01 Light Package
• A34 Super Track Pack
• A87 Road Runner Decor Package
• B41 Front Disc 10" rear drum
• B51 Power Brakes
• C23 Rear Arm rests ash tray
• C65 Air Foam front Seat
• C93 Carpet
• D21 4 speed Manual
• D58 4:10 trans
• D87 440 3x2 barrel (Six Pack)
• F25 Battery 70 Amp
• F96 Oil Pressure Guage
• Ek2 Go Mango/Vitamin C
• Tx9 Interior Black
• V1x Vinyl Black Top
• H2X9 High trim bench seat black silver trim

Build sheet codes (has two build sheets)

• G33 OS LH Remote Racing Mirrors
• G41 Day Night Inside Rear View Mirror
• H11 Heater
• J11 Glove Box Lock
• J25 3 speed wiper
• J45 Hood Tie Down Pins
• L05 Map Light
• L11 Glove Box light
• L15 Ash Tray Light
• L25 Trunk Lamp
• L31 Hood Mounted Turn Signals
• L65 Ignition Switch w delay
• L76 Heater Control Lamp
• M07 b Pillar Moildings
• M21 Roof Drip rail Mouldings
• M81 Front Bumper Guards
• N41 Dual Exhaust
• N65 Torque Drive 7 blade fan
• N51 Max engine cooling 26" radiator
• N96 Air Grabber Hood
• R11 Music master 2 watt radio (has 8 track period correct installed)
• S15 Hemi/ Police Suspension HD
• S25 Firm Ride 1" shocks
• S31 Front Sway Bar
• S79 Partial Ring Horn
• S77 Power Steering
• W21 Rallye wheels

 

[biomedtechguy]

I am not sure about this as I am not that good with 1970 RR's but from a build sheet decode it looks like a "S15 Hemi/ Police Suspension HD" could be ordered but maybe you did not have to have that. IDK Just throwing it out there.

Vin decodes

• RM Road Runner
• 21 Post Coup
• V 440 Six Pack
• 0 1970
• A Lynch Road assembly plant

Fender Tag Decode (rare codes/sought after highlighted in red)

• A01 Light Package
• A34 Super Track Pack
• A87 Road Runner Decor Package
• B41 Front Disc 10" rear drum
• B51 Power Brakes
• C23 Rear Arm rests ash tray
• C65 Air Foam front Seat
• C93 Carpet
• D21 4 speed Manual
• D58 4:10 trans
• D87 440 3x2 barrel (Six Pack)
• F25 Battery 70 Amp
• F96 Oil Pressure Guage
• Ek2 Go Mango/Vitamin C
• Tx9 Interior Black
• V1x Vinyl Black Top
• H2X9 High trim bench seat black silver trim

Build sheet codes (has two build sheets)

• G33 OS LH Remote Racing Mirrors
• G41 Day Night Inside Rear View Mirror
• H11 Heater
• J11 Glove Box Lock
• J25 3 speed wiper
• J45 Hood Tie Down Pins
• L05 Map Light
• L11 Glove Box light
• L15 Ash Tray Light
• L25 Trunk Lamp
• L31 Hood Mounted Turn Signals
• L65 Ignition Switch w delay
• L76 Heater Control Lamp
• M07 b Pillar Moildings
• M21 Roof Drip rail Mouldings
• M81 Front Bumper Guards
• N41 Dual Exhaust
• N65 Torque Drive 7 blade fan
• N51 Max engine cooling 26" radiator
• N96 Air Grabber Hood
• R11 Music master 2 watt radio (has 8 track period correct installed)
• S15 Hemi/ Police Suspension HD
• S25 Firm Ride 1" shocks
• S31 Front Sway Bar
• S79 Partial Ring Horn
• S77 Power Steering
• W21 Rallye wheels

Thanks
I checked the codes on the fender tag, the tag looks like the rest of the car, but I'll have to see how it's fastened to the fender.