440 How would you build for 700hp

[451Mopar]

This was the slightly smaller 264/264 @ 0.050" cam about an hour before I broke the rocker stand on the original Victor MW heads.
New cam sounds about the same. Pretty quiet through the super turbo mufflers:


Testing out the FiTech:

 

[biomedtechguy]

Thanks Jim.
My first Mopar of my own was a 71 Charger R/T 440 4bbl back in 78 at 16&17 yrs old.

The yellow and black theme has been with me since I was 9 and got a Schwinn Super Sport 10 speed..
Still my favorite color combination.

I love the music it makes. I guess it may seem strange, but I hope the much more powerful, more "radical" 572 sounds at least as good as the mildly warmed over 440 6bbl I have now.

 

[66Satellite47]

My 512/440 is a '70 block. 4.25 crank, 4.380 bore, 12.4 CR, Comp custom .590 ish with 259/[email protected]. SFT, Indy EZ-1, 850 DP. It made 692 HP on the dyno. I now have a 1050 with 4500 manifold. Seems like more than 700 HP. I have much chassis tuning to do. I am really tempted to put my antique General Kinetics mushroom cam in it, .635/.645 278*/280*.

 

[440rb]

Back to the 700hp 440, you can work from these no's spec's to see just what it would take to reach 700hp and the no's are taken from a 1/4 cars weight/mph>

My mates '69 Dart 440+.030, 12.7:1, DC. 590/[email protected] sft, MCH Eddies@approx 325cfm, Victor int., 950DP then 1050 Dom which didn't pull much more, 2" hdrs, ran a best of 10.14@132@3150lbs trapping@6800=600fwhp. So you need another 100hp do you go MW heads@350+cfm and a .700"+ [email protected] s/roller, I guess so and perhaps a TR+ 2x750's and turn 7k+?

 

[66Satellite47]

My 512/440 is a '70 block. 4.25 crank, 4.380 bore, 12.4 CR, Comp custom .590 ish with 259/[email protected]. SFT, Indy EZ-1, 850 DP. It made 692 HP on the dyno. I now have a 1050 with 4500 manifold. Seems like more than 700 HP. I have much chassis tuning to do. I am really tempted to put my antique General Kinetics mushroom cam in it, .635/.645 278*/280*.

BTW its gone 10.51 @ 128 in the 3750# Satellite which needs a lot of chassis tuning. My bet is that old mushroom cam is worth a few tenths and a few MPH. But need to get the chassis working properly first. Maybe a little porting on the EZ-1's would pick up some too?

 

[440rb]

BTW its gone 10.51 @ 128 in the 3750# Satellite which needs a lot of chassis tuning. My bet is that old mushroom cam is worth a few tenths and a few MPH. But need to get the chassis working properly first. Maybe a little porting on the EZ-1's would pick up some too?

I wouldn't say the chassis is that bad, 640fwhp@3750 shows like this>
60 Foot E.T. : 1.46 Seconds
1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.63 Seconds
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 102.59 MPH
1/4 Mile E.T. : 10.50 Seconds
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 128 MPH

690hp would be
60 Foot E.T. : 1.42 Seconds
1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.46 Seconds
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 105.19 MPH
1/4 Mile E.T. : 10.24 Seconds
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 131 MPH

 

[RemCharger]

Slide rules don't account for a lot of different and extra variables.
But at least it's a sloppy baseline to start with, I guess.

 

[66Satellite47]

Ya, the chassis is not good yet. Your calculator numbers seem good. 690 on the dyno sure isn't 690 at the track. This is the only motor I've had on a dyno. All my bracket motors that I had were just guessed at the track. A couple of mine I guessed at about 600 HP, but who knows. Also the 692HP dyno was on a dyno that was not a "friendly dyno".
Back in the day, my 10.50 Coronet had a well sorted out chassis, it left straight, level and consistent. I hope to get my Satellite to that point.

 

[Geoff 2]

To answer the title of the question: very carefully...

 

[66Satellite47]

It seems to me it's fairly easy to make 700 HP with a 440 these days. But it's expensive and you need a good builder. The cranks, rods & most important the cylinder heads are available. The really good builder can make it happen.

 

[dvw]

What you have to remember is "corrected to standard HP" will seldom if ever be seen in the real world. The air in most places just isn't that good. Running in MI, Oh, Ill, Ind, Ky we are always off 1.5-7.0%. depending on time of year. Think about that. That's 1.5-7.0 HP/100. A 700 HP motor could be down 10-50 HP on weather alone. In my case even more. Occasionally guys running on the Atlantic coast or winter in Florida may seem some numbers better than corrected. Or those in high elevation may never see as good as I do. Mines never been dynoed. But I know roughly the minimum HP it takes to run my number. What would it dyno at? Who knows, doesn't matter. Not to mention running a brick for aerodynamics.
Doug

 

[66Satellite47]

dvw, I hear you. In nearly 20 years bracket racing I never had a motor on a dyno. My fastest 400/451 probably made about 600 HP. But didn't matter as long as the car was consistent and I could find the light. The air in MN, WI, IA,IL, sure isn't the same as East or Cali coast, or Denver.

 

[440rb]

The reason the calcs here in UK work pretty good is that SPR is at near sea level (360ft above I think) and I believe Wallace no's are based on near sea level, DA is seldom above 1600 and normally in the low 1000's.
I example I know of well is our wedge motor that dyno'd@695@5500-5900 and is 3800@line.
Wallace said 680fwhp would show a ticket of>
60 Foot E.T. : 1.44 Seconds
1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.52 Seconds
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 104.22 MPH
1/4 Mile E.T. : 10.34 Seconds
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 130 MPH
we've run a best on a no wind day of 10.35@130 with a 1.43 60. with full exhaust/air filter/all ancillaries
You guys got more probs than us with altitude/DA etc., so calcs will be off.
In a situation like that with high DA/altitude etc., I reduce the fwhp no's to get to the actual et/mph to give an idea of how much hp was available under those conditions.

 

[dvw]

You can adjust Wallace for air conditions.
Doug

 

[440rb]

http://www.wallaceracing.com/convert-et-to-msa.php

 

[biomedtechguy]

You can adjust Wallace for air conditions.
Doug

I'd never run my air conditioner in a drag race at the track...

 

[66Satellite47]

I'd never run my air conditioner in a drag race at the track...

None of my cars had AC. LOL

 

[PRHeads]

Fresh off the dyno-

446, JE domes, 13.2:1, bowl blended EZ-1’s, 440-3 intake(ootb), APD 1150 carb from owners other motor, 270/274-108 roller, 1.5 rockers, 2-2 1/8 x 4 dyno headers:

 

[PRHeads]

Slide rules don't account for a lot of different and extra variables.
But at least it's a sloppy baseline to start with, I guess.

What I do for my initial ruff-guesstimate is take 90% of the corrected dyno HP, and see how that looks on the Moroso slider.
That’s for tracks at about 1000’ elevation or less.
And even doing it that way, the combo in the car can’t be “junk”.
Gears, converter, traction...... need to be at least somewhat close.
And no mechanical/electrical problems.
No fuel delivery issues, no skipping and popping, no giant bog on the line, etc.

Basically, on a decent weather day(not mineshaft, but not crap either), if the car is reasonably well sorted out...... and the dyno numbers are fairly accurate....... when looking at the cars performance on the Moroso slider, it should be able to get within 10% of the STP corrected dyno HP.

Using my car with the 383 in it as an example.
The motor made 485hp, STP corrected.
That’s 436hp after you knock 10% off.
The car weighed 3670 race ready.
The Moroso slider shows [email protected] for 436hp and 3670lbs.
In normal air, it went 11.40@115+ at LVD, which is one of the slower tracks around here.
At Napierville in Canada it went 11.26@119 in better air.

 

[RemCharger]

What I do for my initial ruff-guesstimate is take 90% of the corrected dyno HP, and see how that looks on the Moroso slider.
That’s for tracks at about 1000’ elevation or less.
And even doing it that way, the combo in the car can’t be “junk”.
Gears, converter, traction...... need to be at least somewhat close.
And no mechanical/electrical problems.
No fuel delivery issues, no skipping and popping, no giant bog on the line, etc.

Basically, on a decent weather day(not mineshaft, but not crap either), if the car is reasonably well sorted out...... and the dyno numbers are fairly accurate....... when looking at the cars performance on the Moroso slider, it should be able to get within 10% of the STP corrected dyno HP.

Using my car with the 383 in it as an example.
The motor made 485hp, STP corrected.
That’s 436hp after you knock 10% off.
The car weighed 3670 race ready.
The Moroso slider shows [email protected] for 436hp and 3670lbs.
In normal air, it went 11.40@115+ at LVD, which is one of the slower tracks around here.
At Napierville in Canada it went 11.26@119 in better air.

Thanks Dwayne for taking the time to explain this subject.
A few threads throwing some different info out there. There's k2surfer, it was mentioned that he's making 519 hp to go 121mph....
There's challenger340 , describing a nice street 440 build (great thread) making 500hp ..
So what we're left with is the feeling that RV 440s with 274 cams are interchangeable with 500+ in indy headed crossrammed 10 sec motors. This is why I don't personally get the warm and fuzzies with calcs and slide rules.. some ignorance on my part probably, but I like actual #s from local repeatable reliable dynos. We're fortunate up here to have a really great builder. He runs a 331 4bbl chev at 7.50 175.
Anyway, I go by his #s , as most around here do.