440 How would you build for 700hp

[bobtile]

most here know what you've gone thru

I totally respect what you've done with
a stock stroke stock block RB/440 combo, for real
doing what guys with far larger CID/Stroked/Bored combos
have barely done
you did with a stock block & stroke

but as you know it takes its toll on lower-end parts
when you start to get at that level

block or cap cracks etc.

the block webbing & saddles (45-50+ y/o blocks)
& its '2 bolt' style caps seem to be the weak link
one &/or the other
even if you were to go 'with a girdle'
the block webs & 2 bolt style caps are still weak,
even if aftermarket caps & hardware, as used

expensive lessons to learn

didn't really mean to single you out


sorry

tough love, in a nonsexual way

Unfortunately you're correct.
But I still haven't learned my lesson...
And thanks for being specific about the love thing.

 

[Gunner1]

Realistically a well machined 440 with the obligatory ARP stuff and a cast or forged crank, good rods, flat tops a set of 240 TF’s and a mid level solid flat tappet cam ought to produce more power than a set of 275-60-15 street tire will hook up at a stoplight. Unless I’m gonna race I don’t see the ability to hook up 700hp on the street. But then 700 would be so much more fun to cruise with. My mild 440 blazes the Cooper Cobras. But the need for a solid foundation is paramount to a long lasting high HP build. And that points toward a aftermarket block if you really want piece of mind.

 

[PROSTOCKTOM]

Forsure you need a 4340 crank if you want that kind of power level. I don't see you getting close to 700 HP with a mid level flat tappet cam and an out of the box set of 240's. Cubic inches and a roller cam will make it a lot easier to obtain if you want it to have street manners.

Tom

 

[Gunner1]

I agree. While I had customers running our Cast 9000 series 350 cranks in turbo applications at 750 to 800 hp. Those were the exception to the rule. I was speaking of a 500 hp street motor. For a 700 I would look at a Billet girdle system that tie's in the pan rail. I saw one for the RB Blocks. Then a Scat Lightweight crank with long BBC spec rods and about 11 to 1. Ported Indy heads flowing high 300's at a reasonable 700 to 750 lift. A tight LSA would bring in the torque peak early. Last would be a Tunnel Ram with 2- 750's should make a safe 700hp at under 6500 rpm.

 

[gregsdart]

Consider this. Offset grind a stock forged 440 crank to 4.0 stroke using 2.100 sbc bearings, custom aluminum rods from BME. Chose pistons with a 1.24 compression hieght, 4.350 bore and . 043 top and 2nd rings. Order the BME 396 forging rods in 7.46 length, .990pins, 2.100 bearing size. You now have a 475 cube light rotating assembly perfectly sized for close to stock port sized heads. Order aluminum heads that will flow about 310,like pocket ported Indy ez?
I did this back in 1997, used a set of pocket ported 440-c heads, Indy single plane, Holley 750 methanol carb, and a hydraulic flat tappet cam with comp 5196 lobes, 268@ .050, 108 lsa, .558 lift with 1.55 rockers. Went 10.10 at 3180 lbs. 5800 to 6000 rpm shifts.
A better carb, and a better cam and you would be very close to 700 hp.

 

[PRHeads]

Building a stock stroke 440 that makes in the 700hp range isn’t that hard to do these days.
The parts to accomplish this are in the catalogs.

But the stock blocks haven’t gotten any stronger....... so it’ll likely fail at some point if it sees 700hp regularly.

And a build like that will be fairly high strung......... so, not well suited for many applications.
Building it in the 500” range makes way more sense, as it will have a more overall usable power band.

Of course, that doesn’t address the block durability issue.

 

[RemCharger]

Building a stock stroke 440 that makes in the 700hp range isn’t that hard to do these days.
The parts to accomplish this are in the catalogs.

But the stock blocks haven’t gotten any stronger....... so it’ll likely fail at some point if it sees 700hp regularly.

And a build like that will be fairly high strung......... so, not well suited for many applications.
Building it in the 500” range makes way more sense, as it will have a more overall usable power band.

Of course, that doesn’t address the block durability issue.

View attachment 1254457

Thanks PRH! Was that dyno sheet a 440? Interested in head and cam #s.
Glad we're back to the roots of the thread

 

[PRHeads]

440 +.055”(451ci)

13:1, .650 roller, 275/275-108, ported SR heads(flow 340), 440-3 intake, 1050/4500 carb, 2-2 1/8 x 4 dyno headers.
It sounded killer on the dyno.

You could build it as a 505 for about the same $$$, and probably make 50hp more........ and something like 50 more TQ as well.

 

[RemCharger]

Thanks! I'm building a similar one, but have the hughes monster Victor's. Guessing more like 11.5-12:1, have to measure. .008 in the hole flat top.
I was thinking about 268-270 @50.. I guess based on small cube, big head, lackluster compression. Not excited about above 7k, stock crank.
Thoughts on cam duration?
Bracket motor

 

[PRHeads]

My motor had an aftermarket crank, so I had no worries about the rpm.

I’ve had a set of the Hughes Maxx Victors here....... seemed like it would be a big head on a stock stroke 440 build.

I ported some std port Victors that went on an 11:1 RB452, and with a relatively easy on parts [email protected] cam it made over 600tq and around 680hp.

 

[RemCharger]

I appreciate the information. It's a "this is what we got" build. The bottom end is actually from a customer of yours , the picture in your avatar

 

[PRHeads]

Should be interesting.

 

[PRHeads]

I'm building a similar one, but have the hughes monster Victor's.

Have you CC’d an intake runner yet?
Is it close to the 355cc they advertise?

 

[RemCharger]

No, would need to scrounge up some equipment for that.
But maybe I should , I'd also like to see what the volume is on the severely ported 286 MWs that they are replacing.
Should cc the chambers too.
These are the 2.200 s.. not the 2.25 upgrade

 

[PRHeads]

My notes show the one I tested had an SI brand 2.19 valve in it. Throat diameter was 1.990, bowl max diameter was 2.235.

I never cc’d it though.

 

[RemCharger]

It's probably the 2.19 then, I was eyeballing a dead caliper.
I will see when we can get some proper measuring equipment.
Just got some used rollers yesterday , have to check those out and find specs for this cam I have. Believe it to be a .658 as far as measuring.. maybe you would have more insight...?

 

[PRHeads]

The head I tested had been run ootb as it came from Ede....... then got sent to Hughes for the rework.
Apparently they found some issues with the Ede 2.20 valves, so they replaced them.

That cam has .420 lift lobes, 268/270-110.
Both lobe families are pretty easy on parts.

 

[RemCharger]

These heads had a season on them, then got a good going over before I got them. "Should " be good, new Ti retainers etc..

That is excellent news on the cam thank you !! We'll stuff it in and see where that goes.. have new H/S 1.6s.

It's a good day!

 

[451Mopar]

Found the box for the current cam:
I would change the exhaust to an exhaust lobe profile if I did it over again, maybe even drop the duration slightly for my heavy car.
This is the 500" 4.15" stroke 400 block with the Hughes CNC ported Victor MW heads. Flat top pistons, zero decked, so around 12.4:1 compression.
Old 2" hooker super comp headers and full 3" TTI exhaust system. Indy 4150 type single plane.
Have had different carbs on it, 1,000 CFM Holley HP on gas, Quick Fuel 1,000 cfm E-85 carb, and now a FiTech Go EFI 8 Power adder plus 1200 HP on 100 octane unleaded. I might try running it on E-85?

 

[biomedtechguy]

Found the box for the current cam:
I would change the exhaust to an exhaust lobe profile if I did it over again, maybe even drop the duration slightly for my heavy car.
This is the 500" 4.15" stroke 400 block with the Hughes CNC ported Victor MW heads. Flat top pistons, zero decked, so around 12.4:1 compression.
Old 2" hooker super comp headers and full 3" TTI exhaust system. Indy 4150 type single plane.
Have had different carbs on it, 1,000 CFM Holley HP on gas, Quick Fuel 1,000 cfm E-85 carb, and now a FiTech Go EFI 8 Power adder plus 1200 HP on 100 octane unleaded. I might try running it on E-85?

View attachment 1254718

I'd LOVE to hear that bad boy at idle!