• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

440 How would you build for 700hp

accept the fact that you can’t run hydraulic roller cams in a Performance Application!
Tsk Tsk...measly 6,900 RPM and "only" 1500 HP on pump gas....
:lol:
To be fair, the LS platform has always been a roller cam design. It's more conducive to using hydraulic roller lifters IMO.
 
Tsk Tsk...measly 6,900 RPM and "only" 1500 HP on pump gas....
:lol:
To be fair, the LS platform has always been a roller cam design. It's more conducive to using hydraulic roller lifters IMO.
If you’re going to claim that to be the case... you’re going to have to explain why you believe it to be so.
 
If you’re going to claim that to be the case... you’re going to have to explain why you believe it to be so.
I can't...
I assumed...
I could suggest that the method of circulating oil through the RB block and lifters is inherently disadvantageous for roller lifters vs the LS block, but I don't know that much about LS blocks...
I am hoping that more information will flow from the post though.
I'm here to mostly learn, help when I can, promote discussion, and occasionally bring someone a smile, or make them involuntarily spew food or beverage on their web viewing device.
:bananadance::lol::rofl:
 
C’mon Jim.
I know you could rattle off the basics without even thinking about it too hard.

I could I suppose, but you've heard of OCD. I have a hard time deciding what are the basics and what are the details.
 
It’s easy.......if it doesn’t just come to me in a few seconds...... it’s a “detail”.
 
yep,,but with 1.6 rockers, the lift goes up to .665. i have the dyno-sim computer software, its fun playing with differant combinations. its says my setup is good for 785 at 6000 rpm's. and moving around installed cam advance/retard is goes up more and down.for what its worth. free of charge!

I downloaded a free version of a dyno simulator but could not get it to work. What version are you using?
 
I downloaded a free version of a dyno simulator but could not get it to work. What version are you using?
dyno-sim version 4,,i bought it long ago.disc version, and drag-sim.
001.JPG
 
If you’re going to claim that to be the case... you’re going to have to explain why you believe it to be so.

Ford and Chevy starting casting there blocks with lengthened lifter bores with re-positioned oil galleries for their HR lifter motors in the early 80's to assist lifter sealing. Mopars have a very short distance between where the very large Oil Gallery intersects the lifter Bore, and the bottom of the Bore itself, which is also the spot where maximum Lifter Bore wear occurs in old Blocks, allowing excessive Oil Pressure leakage out, rather than into the Lifter maintaining preload = possible problems.
 
Last edited:
Ford and Chevy starting casting there blocks with lengthened lifter bores with re-positioned oil galleries for their HR lifter motors in the early 80's to assist lifter sealing. Mopars have a very short distance between where the very large Oil Gallery intersects the lifter Bore, and the bottom of the Bore itself, which is also the spot where maximum Lifter Bore wear occurs in old Blocks, allowing excessive Oil Pressure leakage out, rather than into the Lifter maintaining preload = possible problems.
Can't you just block the OE passage and then spider-leg it in from the valley side?
 
You need to stop asking this question and accept the fact that you can’t run hydraulic roller cams in a Performance Application! :lol:
Guys make plenty of power with hydraulic rollers. Its like the carb vs efi discussion.
 
Guys make plenty of power with hydraulic rollers. Its like the carb vs efi discussion.
Absolutely true. It’s not about making power, it’s about at what rpm will the lifter maintain control of the valve train. An LS valve, spring and retainer weigh much less than a BBM making it easier to maintain that control to a higher rpm.
 
Whats wrong with efi and a couple of small hairdryers? Easier on the block, much more docile motor. If not that then a newer design blower. More efficient. Great torque at low rpm. It would feel like driving a 700 inch motor with a mild cam! After having two 3.5 echoboost trucks, and a blown 4.6 mustang, modern forced induction with efi is the catz bunz, as they say
 
Last edited:
We've been 10.0's @ 133 @ 3,700 lbs. with a hydraulic roller. It's a great setup. Quiet on the street, no lash to worry about. 600 n/a and 250 shot of spray. I just pulled it apart for the first time in 6 years and it looks new inside! No girdle, just main studs.

Light rotating assembly and 6500 rpm limit is the key to its longevity IMO.
 
I like the idea of a blower engine, but getting everything to fit does not seem easy unless you do like the truck and re-locate the cooling system or set the engine back? Even turbos would be a tight fit and might need to cut out the inner fenders of the car?

Making power with all the good parts now is not that hard.
The stock block is more of a limiting factor.
The 500" 400 in the Charger has not been on an engine dyno, and the new combination has not been on the chassis dyno yet, but the old combination was around 600 HP to the tires (NA, no power adders with a 4150 HP carb).
The old combination was much like Andy Finkbeiner did with the Trick Flow 270 head engine that was around 725 HP with the Indy Intake.
I think this 775 HP combination of Andys was the last one I read about:
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/dyno-tested-vacuum-pump-help-engine-make-power/

My 400 block is the thick web 230 400 block with the BCR caps and girdle, and the Hughes CNC ported Victor MW heads.
It is the 4.15" stroke 4.375" bore (just shy of 500 cid), 12.4:1 compression, The CNC heads flow around 400 cfm,
Cam is Comp HXL lobes, I think 274/278 @ 0.050", but 0.726" lift with my 1.6:1 rocker arms. Andy had 1.65:1 rocker arms, so lift was higher.
Currently running the 4150 base Indy single plane, but would like to get the dual quad tunnel ram and see if I can get close to 800 HP NA?
Most of the issues have been the five bolts (studs) and rocker stands that hold the rocker shafts.
I have broken the rocker stands on the old setup and a rocker shaft stud on the new setup.
T&D now has paired shaft rockers that I think would be a stronger and more stable setup, but I'm still running the older T&D rocker system.
I'd like to have all the cool stuff Andys engine has with the ported intake, dry sump, and vacuum pump.
 
The blower stuff doesn't take much. My street 340, 8,0-1,.550 cam, home ported 360 heads, converted 4 barrel intake, worn out 6V-71, 2 Eddy carbs. Drive it anywhere. It'll run 11.0's@3850lbs in street trim. Think of what the same would do with 100 inches more.
Doug

20210708_135501.jpg
 
if you're going to use a stock iron block
use the 230 casting B-400 Block
it's a whole lot stronger/thicker in the webbing
than any RB 413-440 cast iron OE block, will ever be

look at a couple of the @bobtile
posts about his stock 440 stroke 3.75in
mid-hi 9 second car 67 Barracuda coupe drag car
beating the **** out of the caps & mains or cranks

getting to the 700+ hp level
isn't all that hard, even with a stock stroke 440
how much of a budget do you have ?
(that is usually a huge part of the problems, or paying a professional
engine builder/knowledge for his/their time & expertise
)
people usually cheap out somewhere & wonder why ?

you do need some really good heads &/or a power adder
BBM are notorious for have a huge chokepoint
that is the cylinder heads suited for a sb on a bb

Especially if you add a bunch of cid, it becomes easier
& more complicated too
Need some really good 225+cc @ 330cfm (+) professionally ported heads,
(240cc or 270cc even better, but 2 times as much $$ too,
then special parts or MW ports/intake etc. starts to get involved
)
an adequate cam, for your needs,
solid roller or mechanical Flat tappet is easiest, still can fail
(doesn't mean you can't do it with a hydraulic, FT or Roller
if it's big enough cid (bigger is easier) or good enough flowing components
)
enough ignition, enough induction, carb or EFI or even mechanical FI
or turbo'd or roots Blown or centrifugal blower
if that floats your boat,
(but it's more complicated but easy enough too)
& exhaust/headers to handle all the air in & out etc.

with a blown (especially roots blown) application pray it doesn't detonate
better keep it cool, hotter ir gets the hotter the air charge gets & kills power
you could go to E85 or methanol not available in many areas
but it will help the air charge cooling & detonation problems
will it live with a stock OE block ?
or a stock crank ?
or stock caps ?
with the right valve-springs to get it to the proper rpm range
with just a bunch of bolt-on hardware
'sure' but for how long at that level ?

how many times do you run it at wide-open throttle
will it see a lot of 7,000 rpm runs
or is it all about a dyno sheet & bragging rights
to say; "it makes this X00 much horsepower

when if it's more of a street brawler, (?)
not really a dedicated drag car (?)
& make the car work better, lil' steeper gears, loser converter (than stk)
better & freer moving suspension, lighter car etc.
(it's all about power to weight ratios)
it's better to build "torque at a lower rpm" to help move a heavy car
not have to run such steep gears, can't hardly be hwy driven
or a need for a 5500+rpm stall converter (cooking the trans)
getting that # high in at like 3800-4500, & still be a usable 600+ HP

then build an engine that will rarely ever see that 7,000+ rpm #
to get that 700-750hp (just for bragging rights)
be ill-performing at lower rpm levels, because it's not built for that

I guess it all depends on the end usage
& how much you want to spend, power cost $$$
how much power & money you willing to spend to get it

good luck & have fun
 
Last edited:

if you're going to use a stock iron block
use the 230 casting B-400 Block
it's a whole lot stronger/thicker in the webbing
than any RB 413-440 cast iron OE block, will ever be

look at a couple of the @bobtile
posts about his stock 440 stroke 3.75in
mid-hi 9 second car 67 Barracuda coupe drag car
beating the **** out of the caps & mains or cranks

getting to the 700+ hp level
isn't all that hard, even with a stock stroke 440
how much of a budget do you have ?
(that is usually a huge part of the problems, or paying a professional
engine builder/knowledge for his/their time & expertise
)
people usually cheap out somewhere & wonder why ?

you do need some really good heads &/or a power adder
BBM are notorious for have a huge chokepoint
that is the cylinder heads suited for a sb on a bb

Especially if you add a bunch of cid, it becomes easier
& more complicated too
Need some really good 225+cc @ 330cfm (+) professionally ported heads,
(240cc or 270cc even better, but 2 times as much $$ too,
then special parts or MW ports/intake etc. starts to get involved
)
an adequate cam, for your needs,
solid roller or mechanical Flat tappet is easiest, still can fail
(doesn't mean you can't do it with a hydraulic, FT or Roller
if it's big enough cid (bigger is easier) or good enough flowing components
)
enough ignition, enough induction, carb or EFI or even mechanical FI
or turbo'd or roots Blown or centrifugal blower
if that floats your boat,
(but it's more complicated but easy enough too)
& exhaust/headers to handle all the air in & out etc.

with a blown (especially roots blown) application pray it doesn't detonate
better keep it cool, hotter ir gets the hotter the air charge gets & kills power
you could go to E85 or methanol not available in many areas
but it will help the air charge cooling & detonation problems
will it live with a stock OE block ?
or a stock crank ?
or stock caps ?
with the right valve-springs to get it to the proper rpm range
with just a bunch of bolt-on hardware
'sure' but for how long at that level ?

how many times do you run it at wide-open throttle
will it see a lot of 7,000 rpm runs
or is it all about a dyno sheet & bragging rights
to say; "it makes this X00 much horsepower

when if it's more of a street brawler, (?)
not really a dedicated drag car (?)
& make the car work better, lil' steeper gears, loser converter (than stk)
better & freer moving suspension, lighter car etc.
(it's all about power to weight ratios)
it's better to build "torque at a lower rpm" to help move a heavy car
not have to run such steep gears, can't hardly be hwy driven
or a need for a 5500+rpm stall converter (cooking the trans)
getting that # high in at like 3800-4500, & still be a usable 600+ HP

then build an engine that will rarely ever see that 7,000+ rpm #
to get that 700-750hp (just for bragging rights)
be ill-performing at lower rpm levels, because it's not built for that

I guess it all depends on the end usage
& how much you want to spend, power cost $$$
how much power & money you willing to spend to get it

good luck & have fun
You sure do know how to hurt a guy's feelings...:lol:
 
most here know what you've gone thru

I totally respect what you've done with :lowdown:
a stock stroke stock block RB/440 combo, for real
doing what guys with far larger CID/Stroked/Bored combos
have barely done
you did with a stock block & stroke

but as you know it takes its toll on lower-end parts
when you start to get at that level

block or cap cracks etc.

the block webbing & saddles (45-50+ y/o blocks)
& its '2 bolt' style caps seem to be the weak link
one &/or the other
even if you were to go 'with a girdle'
the block webs & 2 bolt style caps are still weak,
even if aftermarket caps & hardware, as used

expensive lessons to learn

didn't really mean to single you out


You sure do know how to hurt a guy's feelings...:lol:
sorry :lol:

tough love, in a nonsexual way

:luvplace:
 
Last edited:
most here know what you've gone thru

I totally respect what you've done with :lowdown:
a stock stroke stock block RB/440 combo, for real
doing what guys with far larger CID/Stroked/Bored combos
have barely done
you did with a stock block & stroke

but as you know it takes its toll on lower-end parts
when you start to get at that level

block or cap cracks etc.

the block webbing & saddles (45-50+ y/o blocks)
& its '2 bolt' style caps seem to be the weak link
one &/or the other
even if you were to go 'with a girdle'
the block webs & 2 bolt style caps are still weak,
even if aftermarket caps & hardware, as used

expensive lessons to learn

didn't really mean to single you out


sorry :lol:

tough love, in a nonsexual way

:luvplace:
 
Auto Transport Service
Back
Top