Max fuel pressure for Carter 3705 carbs?

[fmahannah]

Definitely oil smoke. I would suspect oil getting drawn into the chambers from leaking intake-to-head gaskets.

Any ideas on what woud make this smoking stop immediately when stopped and restarted? That is the part I don't understand is if it is rings or worse why does it stop on a restart as if something resets?
Could excess crankcase pressure cause this type of smoke?
And is there any way to check intake gaskets as the possible cause without tearing things apart? I did buy a cheap borescope

Thanks!

 

[Dragon Slayer]

At running rpm you would have more oil in the valley to be drawn in. Once shut off no oil moving to top of engine and valley is draining.
Take carbs off and look at intake chamber. Should have oil residue.
I don't think it is excess pressure in crank you would see that also.
You can try some marvel oil in crank case and some sea foam in the gas.

It could be valve guide seals, could be intake, could be rings. I would have though if the intake seal was problem, you would have idle issues too. But it seems to idle fine now. Pull the valve covers and inspect valve springs and seals. Easy enough.

 

[fmahannah]

At running rpm you would have more oil in the valley to be drawn in. Once shut off no oil moving to top of engine and valley is draining.
Take carbs off and look at intake chamber. Should have oil residue.
I don't think it is excess pressure in crank you would see that also.
You can try some marvel oil in crank case and some sea foam in the gas.

It could be valve guide seals, could be intake, could be rings. I would have though if the intake seal was problem, you would have idle issues too. But it seems to idle fine now. Pull the valve covers and inspect valve springs and seals. Easy enough.

Should I run the car to where it is smoking before pulling carbs and checking for oil in intake?

Sorry for all the questions .... if I do find oil in the intake it would likely mean intake gasket? When messing with dizzy and timing I did have some pretty powerful backfires (scared the wife to death)

Thanks for your patience. Closest place that can work on this that knows Mopars is far away and car would have to be flat bedded there and I am trying to avoid shipping it off if I can figure it out.

 

[Dragon Slayer]

Smoke like that I would think you would see it, and not need to run it. Do the inspection of intake, and take a valve cover off and inspect.

 

[fmahannah]

The only thing I see in the intake is fuel again, laying around the pocket for one of the bolts. Can't really see any oil puddling.

I am just going to pull intake and valve covers since I can't get valve covers off without the intake off, or so it seems. On passenger side manifold is in the way and on drivers side I can't get to just one of the bolts at the top because the carb mount keeps a socket from going in there. Any tips?

What are the best intake and valve cover gaskets to use? Heads are max wedge repros using 6 bolt valve covers. Intake is NOS max wedge.

Thanks

 

[fmahannah]

Is there anyplace where we can buy the sealing rings for the max wedge intake plugs? I found full sets of plugs and seals but pricey.

Thanks

 

[fmahannah]

Here are a couple pics from the borescope of the interior intake manifold bolts and what is laying in them. Feels like fuel (maybe from the previous issues with the carbs but should have evaporated out). But does not really smell like fuel. Debating drying these out and then running engine again to see if it comes back before I pull the intake and valve covers?

 

[4406bbl]

I guess get some on a rag and see if it dries out. If it does not it has to be oil. It almost has to be coming up the bolt threads to do that as I think if the gasket was bad it would oil the intake port but not where you are showing in my opinion. Maybe pull one bolt and see if they sealed them, or an explosion cracked the bottom of the intake is my only other idea, not a good one. Grasping strings here.

 

[fmahannah]

I will know more soon, doing a wet/dry compression test later to see if it is rings before I tear the intake off

 

[fmahannah]

Does anyone know what the compression should be on a 413 bored 60 over? Just roughly?

Thanks

 

[4406bbl]

A stock 413 10-1 motor maybe 140, with a .509 cam it could be as low as 100-110, with zero deck and those heads 175, it just depends where the cam is installed and the deck height.

 

[fmahannah]

Ok first let me say that those awesome max wedge exhaust manifolds leave much to be desired when it comes to getting a compression tester in all the holes! If it wasn't for my wifes tiny hands it would never have happened.

All tests were performed twice, cold engine since I have parts off and can't start it to warm it up. Considering the engine supposedly only has 2500 miles or so on the rebuild done in 2004, the results appear to be exactly what I would want to see?

All 8 cylinders tested dry at 145-150 exactly (almost as if I was testing the same cylinder 8 times), and wet test did not change them at all (maybe a needle width). Yes this engine is 413, 60 over, 10:1 compression, 509 cam.

So I don't think it is rings, valves, or head gasket. Combustion gas test and pressure leakdown test on cooling system also passed multiple times and did not indicate a head gasket issue).

So that leaves only the the things on the engine that I actually changed and the facvtory PCV system.

1. I replaced the two carter 3705 carbs that were leaking fuel into the intake like crazy with two that I built using three expensive used ones. This resolved the fuel in the intake issue, made idle mix adjustments actually work, and of course ran and idled smoother without the extra fuel.

2. I replaced the MSD distributor with a Summit 851018 with vacuum advance. Set static timing at 12*, vac advance beings it up to about 30* at idle and lets it idle at 1100, and drop in gear without stalling.

3. I added a holley fuel pressure regulator and set it for 5.5 lbs because I thought the factory pump putting out 6.5 was too much and causing the flooding into the intake.

Car never smokes until it is driven down the road about a mile and half, then it smokes even idling when I get home. BUT if I turn off the key and restart immediately the smoking stops completely. Exhaust does not smell of oil like an oil burner car does, and also does not really smell like fuel, but as seen in the video smoke seems to be a mix of white/gray/blue.

The only things I can come up with as a cause for the smoking are:

1. Fuel pressure regulator is bad and lets too much pressure through after driving it for a bit, makes it run rich but resets on restart. I guess I can take it down the road and then when I return while it is smoking check the fuel pressure? Maybe it is causing an issue with the stock carter fuel pump?

2. Vac advance is doing something at speed under load that causes the smoke? Sticking, adding too much advance at part throttle? Would detonation or incomplete burn cause the smoking you see in the video? Would it reset after restart making the smoke go away? When I get it back together I guess I will try a test drive with vac adv disconnect and see what happens

3. PCV system is factory and brand new, there is no sign of oil on valve or hose. If it was not working correctly could this cause the smoke? I bought a Wagner adjustable valve but have not installed it yet.

Thanks!

 

[fmahannah]

In case anyone is interested this is the engine build receipt that I got from the previous owner. Rebuilt in 2004/2005. No guarantee it is the same engine but so far everything matches up. Car has around 2600 miles since rebuild.

 

[4406bbl]

In my opinion it is not the pvc, otherwise the hose would have oil on it. If what your pics show on the inside of the manifold is oil, the only thing I can think of is it is migrating up the intake bolts. At idle it may not have enough splash to show a problem, but on the highway it would, or a crack in the bottom of the intake, I hope not. I just can't think of anything else with a dry pcv hose that would cause it. Did the inside of the intake dry up, or is it still wet everywhere?

 

[fmahannah]

Have not taken the carb back off. Just got back from another test drive with the vac adv disconnected. Same thing, drive a mile, turn left, starts smoking, and as soon as the smoke starts I have no power and have to feather the gas to get moving or it stalls. With the vac adv connected it also did not want to accelerate when the smoke starts, but it did not stall. Might have just given it too much gas.

At this point I may have to ship the car to someone as I am out of things to try, other than pulling the intake and replacing the gasket just in case.

I wonder if a block or head crack might seal fine when not under load, but once fully heated metal expands and under load the oil gets in?

yeah I doubt the pvc also, too clean and valve covers have baffle so not picking up oil there.

Could running too rich possibly cause bluish smoke? And if so I woner what would make the car suddenly run rich after going down the road a ways? I checked fuel pressure when I got back and still at 5.5 like it was set.

 

[fmahannah]

Is there any way that an intake maifold gasket leak could cause oil to get into combustion chanbers? Other than coming up the bolts like you said? Once it cools down a bit I will pull a carb and check inside the intake.

 

[4406bbl]

Yes the gasket could do that but why is oil in the intake? Unless it is fuel. I highly doubt it is a cracked block. I highly doubt both heads cracked at the same time since is is both banks smoking. Kinda leaves the intake. Just thinking. If it is gas one would think with the carb off and blowing some compressed air in the intake manifold it would dry up. I guess if it just dumps fuel in it could wash the rings down and start oiling too, but you would think the oil would be filling up, smell like gas.

 

[4406bbl]

In other words if the intake to head gasket leaks the oil would be in the head ports, not all over inside the intake. But maybe it could? Maybe reversion carries it back that far, never really seen that but that does not mean it can't. I would pull it before I shipped the car anywhere. In fact I would throw a 4bbl on it before I shipped it anywhere to check out the engine.

 

[4406bbl]

If someone close has a known unmilled 440 intake that would help check the block/ head to intake fit. I have learned thru the years that any motor I build the block, heads and intake go together to check fit before I spend a dime, and after the machining is done. You would be surprised what happens when blocks and heads get milled. Intakes don't fit.

 

[fmahannah]

OK I pulled one of the intake manifold plugs and took a look with the borescope.
The puddles are back at each bolt. Thanks for reminding me to check. I had blown them dry before this test drive.
Has an odd green tint at least in the borescope light but I stuck a q-tip in it and it is definitely fuel and not oil.
So it looks like I am back to the carbs again.

So after driving a mile and making a left turn, what would cause a carb to start dumping fuel other than floats?
I am running the jet and metering rods recommended by Dvorak for the wedge in his magazine article, floats are new as are needles and seats.